Why aren't more people using GPS?

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Andy Terry
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Why aren't more people using GPS?

Post by Andy Terry » 02 Mar 2007 21:56

... especially on Audaxes.

The benefits are obvious (to me anyway):

- almost no chance of getting lost
- no bits of paper flapping around your bars
- no trying to read soggy route notes in the rain
- hands-free and safe
- do your navigation at home, enjoy the ride more
- explore a greater variety of routes, not just the tried and trusted
- re-use other peoples routes
- record rides and use them again

Is it really the cost? I reckon you can get everything you need for under £200 these days (except the PC of course). Some people spend that much on a wheel, don't they? Software for downloading/uploading routes is free and there are any number of route planning web sites out there. Some Audax organisers provide the routes in GPS :wink:

Maybe folks just prefer traditional navigation ... or no navigation, just follow someone else. Perhaps they think it's cheating in some way.

What do you folks think?

Anyway ... if anyone is interested in this I'd be only to happy to pass on my experience.

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Post by CakeStop » 02 Mar 2007 22:20

Thought about it last year but decided I couldn't really justify it. Half the cost of a budget bike for no more than 10 rides per year. Of course if I'd already got a garage full of bikes.......
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Post by snailmale » 03 Mar 2007 14:15

Getting lost is half the fun

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Post by George » 03 Mar 2007 16:03

1. Most rides I do don't actually need planning or subsequent analysis. Out of a mixture of choice and necessity, most rides start and finish at home and are relatively short. On such rides there's absolutely no chance of me going anywhere I don't already know or getting lost.
2. Opportunities to go somewhere that needs exploring are relatively few. When such opportunities arise, often I just don't have time/inclination to do any planning and prefer to rely on a companion or event organiser. And sometimes, like Alan, I quite like meandering about without any plan and exploring lanes on a whim, without knowing exactly where they go.
3. Cost isn't so great that it'd put most waged people off if they really wanted the product, but it's enough to put off someone who, like me, would only make use of the device for a small number of holiday/weekend-away rides.

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Post by John Sanderson » 05 Mar 2007 12:16

I have an inherent aversion to GPS - despite working with desktop mapping software a lot in my job. I feel quite proud that I can decipher where I am, and where i'm going, from the maze of lines and symbols on the crumpled bit of paper.

I think it must be something to do with being told what to do by a machine....
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Post by Philip Whiteman » 05 Mar 2007 13:18

I suppose it depends upon the type of GPS that you own. I have Garmin Etrex which is simply not sophisticated enough for route planning. Its waymarking is basically useless. I only ever use it for conferring grid-references against OS maps when mountaineering. Of course it can be used for downloading historic route details. I can plot in co-ordinates but as our roads are never straight, if were to get lost then I would have to cycle in a straight line across fields and through woods to the appointed grid ref.

If I were to purchase a GPS for audaxing, I would probably spend out on an OS mapping GPS - but as the cost so much I cannot be bothered. Plus there is the other fag of having to continually replace batteries in order that they last long enough for a eight hour audax ride.

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Post by Andy Terry » 05 Mar 2007 13:23

I use been using my eTrex successfully for nearly 4 years now. :)

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Post by Missiles » 05 Mar 2007 13:48

The thought of using a GPS for any purpose has never even flitted through my mind, so it's certainly not cost which is 'putting me off'.

I can't even understand why people feel the need for them in their car. I've always found that a bit of map-reading and forethought has helped me to go wherever I wish to go with minimal hassle.

But then, I've not understood yet what is the attraction of MP3 players and one day maybe I'll think about buying a TV.

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Post by Ed Moss » 05 Mar 2007 16:28

I use it in my car and couldn't do my job without it.
On the bike on the other hand is my opportunity to get away from all technology (esp the mobile) and enjoy getting lost when I have run out of food and water, and so far I haven't got lost on a 10.... :lol:

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Post by yo-yo off the back » 05 Mar 2007 17:39

Having cycled the lanes south of Birmingham for about 20 odd years with the club, I like to think I have a reasonable sense of direction and remember most routes. Over recent years, living more to the south-east of Birmingham I have explored Coleshill/ Tamworth direction and by studying the map the roads start to stick in my mind better. Obviously this relies on not loosing my marbles at some future juncture and forgetting! Therefore I would spend the money on other equipment at the moment.

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Post by charlie » 06 Mar 2007 12:17

:roll: I agree with John S. I enjoy planning the route on the map. So saying, my daughter and her husband are into "gadgets" and when we went to Sweden over the new year the GPS was invaluable. My only attempt at using the GPS ended with the "thing" wanting me to do a U turn down the Bewdley by-pass. It got rather irate(so did I).

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Post by Fred2637 » 04 May 2008 23:09

Got the Garmin 605 and used it for the first time on Saturday. Its brilliant, some many uses. Examples:-
1) Just look at the screen for the name of the road /lane your on.
2) Have all UK maps on this small device
3) Store workouts, courses and saved rides.
4) Virtual Partner® lets you race a virtual competitor over a specified distance and speed.
5) Courses let you race against a previously recorded workout, so you can compare your current and past performances over the same ride.
6) Auto Pause® pauses the timer when you slow down or stop and resumes when you speed up again, so you can focus on your ride.
7) Auto Lap® automatically starts a new lap each time you pass a specified location or travel a preset distance.
8) Share your info on the internet.
9) I have put all the clubs burst runs onto mine by downloading the GPX files, if I can’t keep up or have a **flat** I won’t worry, just follow my Garmin or set it for home.

Hope this list helps.

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Post by Si-D » 04 May 2008 23:40

Fred,
interesting list of functions on the Garmin.

I've been toying with getting either the 605 or 705 for ages now.
The main uses I'd want it to perform well at is a pre-planned route.
Although I do love 'exploring' the country lanes and finding new routes by getting temporarily lost, I would find the ability to navigate a ride I have prepared at home on Memory Map, or similar, very useful.

How well does the Garmin perform in this regard, ie. is it accurate at telling you where to take a left turn, clearly, and in real time??

Also how long does the battery last if it's in navigation mode??
As mentioned already, it's not much use if the thing dies half way around your route. Is there backup ability? (easily replaced spare battery, for eg)

Appreciate your comments.
Thanks.
Si.
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Post by Jim Moore » 05 May 2008 10:35

Ive been thinking about getting one of these for a while.

I would really like one that can do some type of navigation like the car sat navs that everyone seems to have now. i.e. Can you enter a postcode into these and get it to sort the best route out for you? Does it take into account that you don't want to go up the motorway.

I'd also be interested in features like downloading the route and info onto the pc when you had finished.

Basically I'm looking for

1) Automatic Navigation (A must) by postcode (would like)

2) Pc download of information post ride. Speed, altitude, distance etc.

From what Ive heard a lot of them just give you co-ordinates and then you would still need a map to navigate which seems like a waste of time.

What would people recommend?

Jim
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Post by CakeStop » 05 May 2008 12:32

I think there's been a comparison somewhere in AUK stuff, I'll see if I can find it. IIRC some models are more oriented to navigation of a pre-determined route and other sporty models more oriented to recording what you've done and how you did it. Maybe one of the most recent models combines both, I'm not sure.

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Post by Fred2637 » 05 May 2008 21:08

Si,
you said "The main uses I'd want it to perform well at is a pre-planned route." well its great for that. I downloaded all the clubs bust routes and placed them on my 605, took about 30seconds per route. As for using the navagation there is a choice. Follow the colour screen tail or have it print the direction on screen as you aproach the turns or split screen with both.
Once you set out on your route press the start button to record your journey, it record every second so the directions are up to date quick, its very accurate, and in real time.
You can use the internet to plan your route and then put it on your Garmin.
The battery when fully charged lasts for 15hours (according to Garmin) Two ways to charge the battery, USB to your PC or mains, there is no spare battery option.
Fred

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Post by Fred2637 » 05 May 2008 21:39

Jim,
Automatic Navation yes ( but you need to pay extra £56 for a Plug and play street maps on micro SD card")
Just checked mine - no post code option, you enter region, city, number, street then you get a choice of Follow Road or Off Road. As the 605 is for bicycles I dont think it will send you up a motorway.
After a ride out, plug you 605 in your PC through the USB thats surplied for all your rides stats. Choose your latest ride. stats are Total Distance, Total Time, Average Pace, Average Speed, Max Speed, Total Calories, Total Ascent, Total Descent.
If you pay extra for the heart rate device you can see all the stats about your heart rate.
Also it draws a map of your route (great if you decide just to get out and go) the map is not that great BUT one click and its in veiw in google earth. Now you have all the street info. You have more info now like how fast you were going at what point. ( I did 42 miles and every 4 seconds is recorded on the map !)

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Post by Fred2637 » 05 May 2008 21:41

Also you can conect to the internet and share your stats with other members.

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Post by Fred2637 » 05 May 2008 21:43

CakeStop wrote:I think there's been a comparison somewhere in AUK stuff, I'll see if I can find it. IIRC some models are more oriented to navigation of a pre-determined route and other sporty models more oriented to recording what you've done and how you did it. Maybe one of the most recent models combines both, I'm not sure.
Yes this does both.

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CakeStop
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Post by CakeStop » 05 May 2008 21:49

Loads of useful GPS stuff here....

http://www.aukweb.net/services/gps1.htm

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Si-D
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Post by Si-D » 05 May 2008 22:26

Thanks Fred.
I definitely feel another expensive purchase coming on soon!

Just one more question:
What mapping software is it compatible with? ie what do you use on your PC to actually set up a route you want to do?
I currently have Memory Map, which is as detailed as any OS Map,
and is great for drawing up a specific route on your laptop.
I can then transfer it to my PDA.
The only problem then is the instability of the PDA attached to my bike
(I got about a mile down the road and it flew off the bracket after going over a bump!)
And the battery would probably last about 2 hours tops.


Also, i'm not sure how widely known this little gadget is, but get yourself a PowerMonkey.
It's basically a portable battery charger, with connectors to anything from mobile phones, to cameras, a PDA,
or anything which can be powered via USB (like the Garmin 605)
Comes in real handy on holidays, or weekend trips.

http://www.powermonkey.co.uk/
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Post by Andy Terry » 05 May 2008 22:55

Still using my 6-year-old Garmin eTrex Summit. Does the job. Never got lost with it. Don't know what I'd go for if I was choosing now though. Probably the eTrex Vista HCx.

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Post by Dave Cox » 07 May 2008 18:52

As someone who never quite made the switch from Scalextric to video rally games I guess I'm a bit analogue. I like my OS Map on the handlebars and mourn the Barts 1/2 inch.

However, I've found the GPS in cars handy in the US where maps are hopeless because its all so big and the coast is often too far away to get a fix.

Do you think we could have a seminar demonstration of these gadgets form all you digital whizzes one wintry night at the Club?

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Post by Fred2637 » 07 May 2008 22:43

Si-D wrote:Thanks Fred.
I definitely feel another expensive purchase coming on soon!

Just one more question:
What mapping software is it compatible with? ie what do you use on your PC to actually set up a route you want to do?
I use www.bikely.com to draw my route, save it , download it and then drag the file to my Garmin. Here is my latest one, its the Beacon Audax08 course 108KM.
http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Beacon-Audax08.

Si you are welcome to pop round to see the Garmin 605 to judge for yourself if its what you want. It may save you £206 (amazon.co.uk) if you feel its not what you expected. If you like it , its an expensive trip.
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Post by AlanW » 13 Apr 2009 21:30

Interesting thread, I bought a Garmin Edge 205 last year and this has now converted me to the joys of plotting courses and downloading them.

However the Edge, is more of a training device than a mapping unit, so I am now looking to replace it with another more specific mapping unit.

Having looked at most of the different units on the market, the Garmin e-Trex Vista HCx seems to do everything that I need, and more if I am honest.

Regarding the mapping software, I already have City Navigator v9 Mapsource loaded on the laptop from when I bought another Garmin car SatNav 6 years ago. The downside it would seem is that you cannot run Mapsource with two units. :x

So if I want to use it with the new e-Trex I need to notify Garmin who will swap the licence over. But that then renders my car unit pretty much useless! Failing that, I will have to buy City Navigator Mapsource again.

I was also thinking about getting the Garmin Topo mapping on memory card, but I have been told that City Navigator is better?

Then we have all the hassle of changing format from one to another, so that you can load it. Does it really have to be that complicated?
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Post by CakeStop » 13 Apr 2009 22:00

I'd be surprised if a bit of imaginative searching doesn't reveal a hack to enable you to use the maps you've already bought on both units. This sounds like a rip off - you can only use one unit at a time after all.

Alternatively, Open Street Maps might be of interest depending on where you want to cycle. Around here the maps seem pretty complete (actually more detailed than the ordnance survey) but coverage in some areas is still evolving. There's a good discussion at http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=12998.0
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Re: Why aren't more people using GPS?

Post by RichK » 14 Apr 2009 08:26

Guido Forks wrote:....
Is it really the cost? ...
Yes :cry:

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Post by CakeStop » 10 Jan 2010 12:52

I've taken the plunge and ordered an etrex - main motivation being I think it'll encourage me to explore new routes. Quite a few times last year I contemplated exploring new territory but couldn't be bothered to mess about with a map when on the bike so just went out did familiar routes. I'd also like to use it in place of audax routesheets (which'll be kept in jersey pocket in case).

My plot is to plan new routes in advance (this is something I've always enjoyed greatly), then aim to follow the route with the GPS. In the first instance, rather than buying electronic maps I'm going to try to get by with openstreetmap which has pretty good coverage now. I can see a few missing lanes an hour or two's ride from here so, I can ride over there and go up those lanes, then upload my track so that the lanes appear for everybody else in a wikimap sharing kind of way (providing yet another motivation to get out and ride new places).
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Post by Andy Terry » 10 Jan 2010 13:51

How about: plan route using bikely.com, download GPX, open with EasyGPS and send to GPS unit?

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Post by CakeStop » 10 Jan 2010 14:34

I use bikehike.co.uk for route planning Andy - I think that should be OK because it includes a feature to reduce trackpoints. Openstreetmaps is for maps on the gps.

Thanks for the EasyGPS tip - is that better than whatever Garmin provide?
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Post by AlanW » 10 Jan 2010 15:58

You may also find this link very useful

You can convert most things to something else, tracks to routes and vice versa etc etc.

But its all a nightmare, maps are so much easier. :oops:
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Post by dicvic » 12 Jan 2010 10:59

Hi
Iwould add to the list that Jim posted:
A screen that you can see in daylight/sunlight !
Richard

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Post by Albert Cox » 12 Jan 2010 15:52

Ah! I still have a Barts half inch map '50 miles radius around Birmingham'

I would'nt be without it.

No motorways marked, just quiet main roads like the A38 taking you through the town centres on your way to ,say, Weston super Mare, for a paddle before a quiet A38 ride back to Rubery.

Car- less Lanes galore and the only hazard; the cows being taken for milking!

My cruel grandsons mock me now and say it was the sort of chart used for aviation when Pontius was a Pilot.

Enjoy your Garmins and try a squirt of WD40 if the batteries flag and you are lost..........

Sorry, I'm jealous, really.
ALC

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Post by CakeStop » 12 Jan 2010 20:41

:lol:

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely adore maps, always have always will. I don't enjoy faffing with them when on the bike though. Whether the GPS proves to be any better in that respect remains to be seen of course.

Albert - I have a 2nd world war star navigation thingummy used by bomber pilots to find their way over to Germany. Being able to navigate using that is far more impressive than being able to use any modern technology.

Richard - I've invested a few extra quid in some antireflective film to hopefully improve the view in bright daylight albeit maybe not up to Goan standards.

Anyway, it's arrived, so the learning curve begins.....
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Post by GrahamGamblin » 13 Jan 2010 11:47

I'd be interested to hear how you get on, Steve, with things like creating and downloading routes, uploading data from your rides etc. I'm still dithering about getting a gps, one issue being cost, the other being techno-fear, that I won't be able to get it to talk to my computer or something like that.
I agree about maps - I love looking at maps, especially OS ones, but it is a pain stopping at junctions to fish out a map or route sheet when you're riding.
Incidentally, does anyone know whether I could use a bike-specific GPS such as Garmin 705 for walking (off-road), if I purchased the appropriate mapping? Can you use the same unit , but load different mapping onto it for different uses?
Graham

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Post by CakeStop » 13 Jan 2010 14:01

No trouble with the technology so far. I followed suggestions from the Audax UK site to set it up optimised for cycling.

I copied the munkymap (cycling specific) version of openstreetmaps to the units SD card and it picked that map up automatically. This looks more than adequate for cycling purposes.

I've transferred a couple of test routes (which were created on bikehike) and all that seemed to be straightforward and worked OK.

Now I just need to get out on the bike and find out what happens when I move.
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Post by Si-D » 13 Jan 2010 14:15

GrahamGamblin wrote:Incidentally, does anyone know whether I could use a bike-specific GPS such as Garmin 705 for walking (off-road), if I purchased the appropriate mapping? Can you use the same unit , but load different mapping onto it for different uses?
Should be fine with the 705.
Apart from it having every function you'd ever want from a Cycle Computer, there's a MicroSD Card slot there, which you can use to swap and change map data as required.
Additional pre-loaded Cards are available more suited to walking/hiking...
https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID ... overageTab
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Post by GrahamGamblin » 14 Jan 2010 13:28

Thanks Simon.
Graham

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Post by CakeStop » 24 Feb 2010 19:46

I've now established that it's possible (in a non-geeky way) to replace the useless mapsource map that's provided with the more economical units (that only include a very basic map) with OSM which is freely available. [Mapsource is the software that's provided with the Garmin and which is used for transferring routes etc between the PC and GPS although other tools are available for this].

You can compile a map covering whatever part of the world you need from http://garmin.na1400.info/routable.php - you select the tiles you need and then receive an email an hour or so later with various links, one of which is for mapsource.

To summarise, I'm now using the basic OSM in Mapsource on the PC and the cycling specific MunkyMap version of OSM on the GPS (it's possible to use the munkymap on mapsource but only with geekism that's beyond me). I'm not sure whether I'll start using Mapsource for routeplanning, I'll probably stick with bikehike, but it will be nice to have a decent map to preview the route prior to transferring it to the PC (I still prefer to use Mapsource for that particular purpose).

Incidentally, I used the Sunday walk at Brecon to assess whether the munkymap is suitable for walking purposes as well as cycling. It seemed to be pretty handy - the path that we followed (expertly led by Dave Cole) was clearly marked and near the end when we wanted to leave the path and head for the cars it allowed us to do that. It's not as pretty as an OS map but it does the job and is useful whether following a pre-planned route or simply making it up as you go along.
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Post by Si-D » 24 Feb 2010 22:02

Thanks for this info Steve.

I had a go at loading up a spare micrSD Card with the updated map, and after a bit of tweaking, have that working on my 705.
Whether it will accurately follow my existing routes we'll have to wait and see, but there appears to be more detail on the map (contours/canal details etc)

How do I load up the map detail onto Mapsource & Training Centre??
At the moment all they show are motorways and major A roads, which is fairly useless!

Thanks.
Si.
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Post by CakeStop » 24 Feb 2010 22:41

Si

For the next 36 hours you can download the current OSM covering the whole of the UK that I generated today from here

Once downloaded, run it and accept the default destination. Then in Mapsource, select View-SwitchToProduct-OSMWorldwideRoutable.
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Post by Si-D » 25 Feb 2010 13:55

Excellent stuff!!

All sorted. I now have full mapping detail within Training Centre & Mapsource.

Thank you Steve. :D :D :D
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Post by CakeStop » 25 Feb 2010 14:11

I don't suppose you noticed the little pub symbols now you're in serious training did you? :lol:
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