Do I need a turbo?

GrahamGamblin · Post by **GrahamGamblin** » 28 Jan 2011 10:59

Along with many of you, I spent a good while off the bike this winter, what with snow, ice, and a christmas layoff whilst doing the rounds of family visits etc. and lost a noticeable amount of cycle fitness. This happened last year too. Is it worth getting myself a basic turbo trainer to maintain fitness? Or is this something that's only really worth investing in if you're training for a "season" of some sort, whether that be racing, TTs, or audaxing? I'm pretty much a recreational cyclist, and while I want to work on my fitness and improve, is a turbo worthwhile for someone at my level?
Any advice welcomed.

Post by **CakeStop** » 28 Jan 2011 11:32

I'm firmly in the 'recreational cyclist' camp and I've found mine useful at times in the past but not particularly at the moment. I used to use it a couple of times per week if I couldn't get out on the bike, typically doing 1 hour sessions. As soon as I could get out on the bike again I wouldn't use the turbo with one exception...

For a few months in the lead up to an Alpine holiday I used it to mimic long climbs in the absence of suitable local climbs. I'd spend 30-45 minutes of the hour at high resistance, low cadence, like I would going up a mountain. I think it helped, I was at my best climbing and cycling in general that year but I also did a fair number of AAA audaxes and as much riding up local hills as possible so, along with the holiday itself, it's difficult to know which thing helped most.

I never thought I'd ever say this but at the moment I'm finding visits to a local gym more enjoyable and, I think, more beneficial. However, that's just because I happen to be there anyway with time to kill. Before discovering the gym, given the choice of turbo or gym I'd go for the turbo without hesitation. Now, even assuming I had to make a special trip, the gym is possibly more appealing. However, I would say that if you're tight on time, the turbo delivers best value.

Philip Whiteman · Post by **Philip Whiteman** » 28 Jan 2011 11:39

Don't forget our spinning classes.

As for owning a turbo, one will help. But there are significant down sides, they are extremely boring and good models are expensive. Saying that, the following article may convince you to purchase one:

http://www.cycling-inform.com/general-t ... p-training

Andy Terry · Post by **Andy Terry** » 28 Jan 2011 11:42

I would also class myself as a recreational cyclist. If you have other ways of keeping fit over the winter (e.g. running, swimming. gym), then you probably don't need a turbo. You should soon get your 'cycling' fitness back after a few rides in the spring.

AlanW · Post by **AlanW** » 28 Jan 2011 12:10

As Phil has already mentioned good ones are expensive, but IMHO well worth the outlay as they will last you for years to come. Not only that but they also replicate quite accuratly the feeling of riding on the road.

But as others have said, they are boring, unless you have something to focus the mind on. Again this is where the more expensive models come into thier own. Options such as monitoring your heart rate, candence, watts, and the ability to increase or decrease the loading are all things that you can work with in order to pass the time.

Just to sit on a turbo is nothing short of mind numblingly boring, you need to have a plan. Books like Sally Edwards Indoor trainer book document a whole host of such plans to suit whatever your expectations are.

But you may also wish to explore rollers instead of a turbo? No where near as boring, as if you don't remain focused you'll end up on the floor!

Cheap to buy and most models fold in half, so easy to store. Ideal for keeping your fitness ticking over. But the huge plus side, it makes you a much better rider as it forces you to focus on your peddling action.

chalkie · Post by **chalkie** » 28 Jan 2011 12:45

i invested in one just before xmas, and am quite enjoying it - even though the garage door isn't the most inspiring object to stare at, but a good set of music carefully put together with itunes which has a varied bpm will give you a good hour long workout. i got a Tacx flow which has a digital readout you attach to the handlebars, and with a fixie i do cadence and watts training.
i also plundered other peoples spin class tracks and methods, so basically about midway through i do an out of the saddle climb to one track, then there's a slow track to rest ,then some timetrial long tracks, then tracks with fast choruses, so you can burn to the beat. There's also a company called beat the bike who do cycling spinning cds.
you're welcome to come and try it graham.

GrahamGamblin · Post by **GrahamGamblin** » 28 Jan 2011 13:52

Thanks everyone - sounds like I would also need to invest in an i-pod as well! Phil, I would give the spinning classes a go but can't make Thursdays, unfortunately. I expect my fitness will soon bounce back to where it was, but ideally I would like it to move on a bit. I probably need to do something a bit more structured than just "riding my bike a bit"!

Grogz · Post by **Grogz** » 28 Jan 2011 18:38

Graham, I read an article last night about indoor winter training on turbo and rollers. Its conclusion was that both had value: turbo particularly for strength and speed sessions; rollers for technique, core strength and base endurance. Turbo can do the latter too.

Seems that many people think of turbo as boring, but it's suggested that you are doing it wrong. As others have said, a bit of prep with a structured session will help. Apparently no-one thinks rollers are boring: as a rollers newbie I'd agree, but Alan's much more experienced so can comment with greater authority.

Turbos are quite quiet nowdays, rollers more so. Rollers are lighter and more portable, but not much in it.
Turbos have more to go wrong in my unfortunate experience.

Missiles · Post by **Missiles** » 28 Jan 2011 22:14

The notion that 'if you find the turbo boring you are doing it wrong' seems a bit trite to me. I reckon I must have got something right on the turbo in the past and I certainly found it boring for 90% of the time. But nobody ever said it was supposed to be fun. It's a means to an end. And an extremely effective one at that, if used wisely.

I wouldn't advocate simply finding interesting sessions to do - even a structured session of, say, fast/slow pedalling and hard/easy riding or riding along to your favourite tracks can be a poor use of time and energy - it's not true that simply spending time on the turbo must be time well spent. You do have to give some thought to what you want to achieve and match your training on your turbo to that. (Although I suppose I will concede that whatever you do is better than sitting on the sofa.)

Is it worth getting myself a basic turbo trainer to maintain fitness?

Yes, definitely, if you think you'll use it. Maybe ask yourself whether you are the type of person who is self-disciplined enough to do something fairly uncomfortable and tedious for an hour just because it's good for you? If you're not then maybe try and think of another way to maintain fitness.

Or is this something that's only really worth investing in if you're training for a "season" of some sort, whether that be racing, TTs, or audaxing? I'm pretty much a recreational cyclist, and while I want to work on my fitness and improve, is a turbo worthwhile for someone at my level?

It's not about what level you want to ride at - it's whether you're going to use it. A turbo will benefit anyone provided that they use it regularly (in a sensible way)!

Ruth

AlanW · Post by **AlanW** » 29 Jan 2011 07:41

More info on the pros and cons here

John Sanderson · Post by **John Sanderson** » 31 Jan 2011 11:41

I reckon I must have got something right on the turbo in the past and I certainly found it boring for 90% of the time.

Fair point! We should probably heed Ruths comments!

Isn't a core staple of training, in very simple terms, high volume / low intensity to build a base (usually during our winter) and low volume/high intensity to reach peak performance (usually during our summer). So if 'turbo' work is going to replace 'road' riding over the winter, it seems sensible that some of the turbo work needs to provide high volume/low intensity training.

However, riders instead talk about squashing a load of effort into a shorter workout - ostensibly to reduce the amount of time which has to be spent on the turbo. Surely this will lead to a different set of physiological adaptations?

I can't say that it appeals - but surely the best way to use a turbo is really to allow the correct training to be done, just out of the rain and the cold and the filth of the roads.... It doesn't mean that you can suddenly train in a fundamentally different way but get the same outcome..?

GrahamGamblin · Post by **GrahamGamblin** » 31 Jan 2011 18:51

Thanks again everyone. Ruth - I do have the self-discipline to sit on the turbo despite the tedium, but yes, what I need to do is think about what I want to achieve out of that - you've hit the nail on the head there. Thank you.

Martin Sketchley · Post by **Martin Sketchley** » 18 Dec 2012 15:37

I find myself in the same boat as you when you started this thread, Graham: short on time, not particularly enamoured with the idea of dancing with motorists in the dark, icy nights, but want to maintain what bit of fitness I have and hopefully ride more and improve next year.

Did you ever get a trainer in the end?

Jane Herrin · Post by **Jane Herrin** » 18 Dec 2012 16:26

I'm of the opinion that there is much to be said for sitting on a sofa.

GrahamGamblin · Post by **GrahamGamblin** » 19 Dec 2012 10:48

Martin - I've emailed you

GrahamGamblin · Post by **GrahamGamblin** » 19 Dec 2012 10:52

I did get a basic turbo and I do use it, probably not in as structured a way as I could, but it certainly keeps me pedalling when there's ice around in the winter.
I also have a sofa, and I use that as well.

Philip Whiteman · Post by **Philip Whiteman** » 19 Dec 2012 10:55

Earlier this year, Alan Weaver identified a brilliant sales pitch for a turbo-trainer being sold on Ebay. It may question anyone's motive for using these reached contraptions.

It read as follows:-

I'm selling this barsteward thing because i HATE it.

I’m sure there are people out there who like or even have a perverse love affair with their turbo trainer. It might even attract some sort of love/hate duality. I know for a fact that some people, many of them ostensibly sane with some hideously rapid times to their name, view the turbo as the essential piece of training equipment. Personally, i’d rather rip my face off and dive into a bath of saline solution than use this horrible piece of apparatus. It’s utterly soul-destroying and mind-numbing, which is a pretty vicious combination.

The straw that broke the camel's back:

I thought i might do a ‘quick’ turbo session this evening. The reason being that the weather is pretty terrible and i hadn’t got the time to head down to the lake for the first race of the season. By the time i’d sorted out the rear turbo wheel by putting a tyre on and then pinching an inner tube, then changing the tyre and putting a new tube in, switching the cassette and setting up the bike and then setting up the computer with ‘The Flying Scotsman’ on the iplayer with headphones and subtitles (because of fearsome noise) to alleviate the dreadful and crushing ennui of it all and then got changed and put some water within reach and found my sweaty turbo towel that hasn’t been washed since the last time i dared to ride the barsteward (turbo, not turbo towel) and wrestled with the quick release mechanism and then adjusted the height with a series of books under the front wheel by getting on and off about four times then adjusting the saddle height then going back and adjusting the resistance about 6 times with the manual turny thing, i’d wasted about 55 minutes. This was about as long as i intended to spend on the barsteward piece of shit.

I managed about 11 minutes at about 70% of max before two things happened. The iplayer began to freeze and unfreeze, robbing me of the only thing that helped me think that i wasn’t actually on the turbo, and then without warning the back wheel leapt out of the dropout clasps and i had to do an emergency unclip and braking manouevre ON THE GODDAMNED TURBO just to stay alive. i suddenly lurched towards the computer where Graeme Obree was riding off the front of some sort of Tour of the Scottish Prettylands in the early part of the film and very nearly ended up joining the crazed circular-breathing scotsman on the silver screen.

If you're made of far stronger stuff than I am, and I'm thinking Ivan Drago in Rocky 4 when he kills Apollo Creed to death - that sort of stronger stuff - and think you can handle the savage bestiality of the CYCLOPS WIND TURBO then please, please, please buy this REPULSIVE ITEM.

Tim · Post by **Tim** » 24 Jan 2013 20:26

Was thinking of getting tacx flow at some point in next 12months but having read all this think rollers may be better idea?

I want to do some 30-60min steady 60-75%max hr work and want zero set up time. Tacx antares rollers any good?

AlanW · Post by **AlanW** » 24 Jan 2013 20:48

Tim wrote:Was thinking of getting tacx flow at some point in next 12months but having read all this think rollers may be better idea?

I want to do some 30-60min steady 60-75%max hr work and want zero set up time. Tacx antares rollers any good?

The Tacx Flow is a great, if rather expensive trainer, you will not be disappointed if you decide to go down that option. I have had mine for about 8 years and its worth its weight in gold to be honest.

Using rollers are absolutely perfect for improving your riding style and your balance etc. You will feel a noticeable difference to your road riding after a few sessions on them.

The Antares rollers are a fair set rollers, however you might want to look at rollers with aluminium rollers as opposed to PVC ones. You will get a much smoother and more realistic feeling on aluminium rollers over PVC. But as you would expect, it does come at a cost.

These are mine HERE Ignore the price shown as Ribble sell them for £160 if you catch one of their weekend specials HERE

Plus, you can also add a resistance unit later on if you like?

Tim · Post by **Tim** » 25 Jan 2013 05:26

Ok cheers, sounds like I need both! Will keep my eye on sales, eBay and prices at decathlon. It's more for next winter.

Two last questions do we have club discount card at decathlon and how bad is tyre wear on flow can you keep normal road tyre?

Thanks!

AlanW · Post by **AlanW** » 25 Jan 2013 05:47

Tim wrote: Two last questions do we have club discount card at decathlon and how bad is tyre wear on flow can you keep normal road tyre?

Thanks!

Cannot answer the first question, but I can the answer the second one.

Its not so much about tyre wear, more about how the tyre grips the roller. With a normal road tyre you have to increase the pressure/tension between the roller and tyre to avoid wheel spin. This can lead to a chopping effect with your legs, plus it adds an additional/unnecessary load which makes it feel very unrealistic.

A specific turbo tyre on the other hand is a lot more tactile so you can reduce the amount of pressure/tension, thus making it feel more like riding on the road.

Tim · Post by **Tim** » 25 Jan 2013 05:48

Ok no probs. Thanks

Philip Whiteman · Post by **Philip Whiteman** » 25 Jan 2013 09:13

Tim, Decathlon don't provide a club discount. I bought my Tacx Flow from them some years ago for £200. Their prices were so competitive that any club discount was exceeded when compared to normal suppliers. Whether they remain cheap is another matter.

There is no need to go to the expense of turbo specific wheels. Slippage is easily eradicated by using old tyres periodically sanded with a heavy grade sand-paper to provide a rough surface and improved adhesion between wheel and roller.

One matter not mentioned in this thread is the bike itself. Various narratives elsewhere warn that the uncompromising nature of turbo-trainer can place undue stress on a bike frame and its components. This is pretty obvious considering the amount energy being passed through a fixed entity that would otherwise flex and absorb energy in a the normal situation of road riding. These days, I prefer to use a de-commissioned old bike to avoid unnecessary damage to my road bikes. In the case of my turbo bike, considerable damage has been exacted on the rear wheel, drive chain and gears. One only has to watch the bike frame whilst under stress on a turbo to see how more substantial damage could be caused. Bike frames are simply not designed to be placed in such situations. Therefore, if anyone here owns a single bike that they value and wishes to use it in their turbo trainer, don't!

PS. Having realised how crap Trek bikes are - the turbo is about the only useful situation I have ever found for my Trek Anvil 2.1

AlanW · Post by **AlanW** » 25 Jan 2013 16:06

Philip Whiteman wrote: There is no need to go to the expense of turbo specific wheels. Slippage is easily eradicated by using old tyres periodically sanded with a heavy grade sand-paper to provide a rough surface and improved adhesion between wheel and roller.

Tight arse, plus its about how it rides more than anything else

Philip Whiteman wrote: One matter not mentioned in this thread is the bike itself. Various narratives elsewhere warn that the uncompromising nature of turbo-trainer can place undue stress on a bike frame and its components. This is pretty obvious considering the amount energy being passed through a fixed entity that would otherwise flex and absorb energy in a the normal situation of road riding.

Sorry but I have to completely disagree with that, the stresses and strains placed on a frame in training and racing will fair exceed anything that you could ever do while on a turbo. Its all about being smooth and progressive, that said I have seen the way you attack a spinning bike so in your case then probably yes!