Chains

Clive · Post by **Clive** » 12 Sep 2011 13:34

I've just checked my chain for wear with a Parks gauge and it is between 0.75 and1.0% worn/stretched.

When do people normally replace a chain; as soon as some elongation is seen, or wait until > 1.0%? As a new one will be far cheaper than a cassette and chainrings, I feel I shall replace asap. Just wondered what others do?

Also is there a huge difference in quality/strength/mass between an £18 and £50 chain? I use SRAM as find their powerlink coupling easy and simple to fit.

Post by **CakeStop** » 12 Sep 2011 13:48

I just rotate 2 chains (KMC X10 for £16). One does 1000 miles while the other lives in a jar of white spirits before I swap them over. When both have done 3x1000 I replace them with new chains.

AlanW · Post by **AlanW** » 12 Sep 2011 13:53

Clive wrote:I've just checked my chain for wear with a Parks gauge and it is between 0.75 and1.0% worn/stretched.

When do people normally replace a chain; as soon as some elongation is seen, or wait until > 1.0%? As a new one will be far cheaper than a cassette and chainrings, I feel I shall replace asap. Just wondered what others do?

Also is there a huge difference in quality/strength/mass between an £18 and £50 chain? I use SRAM as find their powerlink coupling easy and simple to fit.

I use the same gauge, and I tend check my chain every other week. I take several spot 'readings' and as soon as I get one reading that indicates 0.75% wear, then I will monitor more carefully. As soon as I get one reading that shows 1.0% wear its replaced straight away.

As a rule of thumb, I will replace three chains and then on the fourth chain, replace the cassette as well.

As for expensive chains being worth the extra, to be honest I have never noticed an significant differance. The most I will spend is around the £20 mark.

What I can you tell though, and after extensive testing on a large amount of differing chain lubes, what makes a huge differance to the life expectancy of a chain is the type of lube that you use and how you look after your chain.

I use KMC Quick Links in all my chains, no matter what the make is.

Andy Terry · Post by **Andy Terry** » 12 Sep 2011 14:55

Don't make my mistake and try and use a 10-speed SRAM powerlink with a 10-speed Shimano chain. The link goes on OK and works fine but you can't remove it (without a chain tool) to split the chain for cleaning. Have since read they are not supposed to be re-usable. Just ordered a KMC X10 and some quick links.

Ed Moss · Post by **Ed Moss** » 12 Sep 2011 15:36

Another vote for Sram.
Depends on how many miles you do and how often you clean it.
On the race bike I tend to change mine once a year, and the old one goes on the winter bike.

Clive · Post by **Clive** » 13 Sep 2011 07:58

CakeStop wrote:I just rotate 2 chains (KMC X10 for £16). One does 1000 miles while the other lives in a jar of white spirits before I swap them over. When both have done 3x1000 I replace them with new chains.

Why do you use more than one and rotate chains?

slogfester · Post by **slogfester** » 13 Sep 2011 12:33

AlanW wrote: As a rule of thumb, I will replace three chains and then on the fourth chain, replace the cassette as well.

Like Alan, on my current setup (10 speed 7800 Dura Ace compact) I get 3 or 4 chains of c. 2000 km each per cassette, depending on how well I've maintained it all. I often run the last chain for further, cos its all toast at the end.

I have used 7800 chains (c/w fixing pins) and cassettes for the past 4 years, but the LBS recently fitted 7900 chain (c/w shimano quick link) + cassette (I was in a big rush). I have to say this doesnt seem to run as smooth through my 7800 rear and front mechs. But the quicklink should enable me to keep it cleaner, especially through winter.

Talking of which, anyone want a used (c. 8000 km) 12-27 DA (7800, 10 speed) cassette?

slogfester · Post by **slogfester** » 13 Sep 2011 12:33

AlanW wrote: As a rule of thumb, I will replace three chains and then on the fourth chain, replace the cassette as well.

Like Alan, on my current setup (10 speed 7800 Dura Ace compact) I get 3 or 4 chains of c. 2000 km each per cassette, depending on how well I've maintained it all. I often run the last chain for further, cos its all toast at the end.

I have used 7800 chains (c/w fixing pins) and cassettes for the past 4 years, but the LBS recently fitted 7900 chain (c/w shimano quick link) + cassette (I was in a big rush). I have to say this doesnt seem to run as smooth through my 7800 rear and front mechs. But the quicklink should enable me to keep it cleaner, especially through winter.

Talking of which, anyone want a used (c. 8000 km) 12-27 DA (7800, 10 speed) cassette?

George · Post by **George** » 13 Sep 2011 13:11

My approach is less scientific. I replace chains when I can be bothered to.

Neil Compton · Post by **Neil Compton** » 13 Sep 2011 13:40

Bit like George but when the chain starts to slip. Since joining the club i've done over 20,000 miles on 2 different bikes and i've only had to change the chain once on either bike. When i had the chains replaced i also had new cassettes.

Post by **CakeStop** » 13 Sep 2011 19:31

Clive wrote:Why do you use more than one and rotate chains?

Wear to the sprocket, and indeed the chainwheel, increases as the chain wears. So, if you take a 3000 mile old chain off and replace it with a brand new one the new chain may perform worse than the old one which the sprockets had worn in with unless you also replace the relatively expensive cassette. Assuming you change your cassette every two chains, by rotating, your outgoing chain is only ever 1000 older than its replacement so will be better matched to level of wear on the cassette .

Actually, I expect to get 3 chain lives (9000 miles) out of a cassette so it would be optimal for me to rotate 3 chains but I only have one jar of white spirits and, if I had two, I'd forget which was which. So, I rotate two and then, if a third chain works OK to begin with, I'll carry on using that until it all gets gnarly (hopefully another 3000) and then replace the cassette and start all over again.

AlanW · Post by **AlanW** » 14 Sep 2011 11:04

Neil Compton wrote:Bit like George but when the chain starts to slip. Since joining the club i've done over 20,000 miles on 2 different bikes and i've only had to change the chain once on either bike. When i had the chains replaced i also had new cassettes.

Just out of interest Neil, are using a 10sp set up?

Neil Compton · Post by **Neil Compton** » 14 Sep 2011 13:33

My Trek which i only tend to ride when it's dry has an 8 speed cassette and my Raleigh which i ride to work on and in wet weather has a 6 speed cassette.

AlanW · Post by **AlanW** » 14 Sep 2011 18:57

Neil Compton wrote:My Trek which i only tend to ride when it's dry has an 8 speed cassette and my Raleigh which i ride to work on and in wet weather has a 6 speed cassette.

That would explain why you can leave your chain on for so long then. As brilliant as 10 speed set ups are, and I would not change mine for the world, but a consequence is that because the chain is that much smaller it will deteriorate quicker.

Also the working tolerances on the 10 speed set up are really close, and even the slightest amount of wear, chain or cassette, will result in really poor gear changing.

Which is why in most instances if you get 1500 miles from a 10 speed chain, then you should be very pleased!

Neil Compton · Post by **Neil Compton** » 15 Sep 2011 10:32

Do you think there is any real noticeable difference to riding an 8/9/10 speed? I'm rather sceptical.

slogfester · Post by **slogfester** » 15 Sep 2011 11:23

BIG difference between 9 and 10 speed. I used to get 5000 km per chain out of my Ultegra 9 speed. Now 2000 km from Dura Ace 10 speed.

Neil Compton · Post by **Neil Compton** » 15 Sep 2011 12:11

Yer but do you feel any noticeable difference when riding a different speed bike? Thats the question i'm asking because i feel if a chains life and strength is drastically reduced just for an extra gear or two then is it really worth going to 10 speed.

George · Post by **George** » 15 Sep 2011 12:47

slogfester wrote:BIG difference between 9 and 10 speed. I used to get 5000 km per chain out of my Ultegra 9 speed. Now 2000 km from Dura Ace 10 speed.

I'm surprised. For several years, I've used BBB Campag-pattern sprockets and KMC chains (I'm a tight barsteward). I have 9 speed on 2 road bikes and 10 on a third. The 10 gets much less use than the others and has only been running its current set-up for a couple of years. So can't yet say whether the 10sp chain does or doesn't last as long as the 9sp, but it's already done more than 2k km and isn't yet showing any significant signs of wear.

Post by **CakeStop** » 15 Sep 2011 14:03

Even with 10 speed, I'd be disappointed (and broke) if I only got 1500 miles out of a chain. I thought I was being extravagant replacing them at 3000. I only use £14 KMC chains though so maybe it's not a fair comparison with Ultegra or Dura Ace. What's ironic is as you pay twice the price for a chain you find it lasts half as long so you actually pay 4x as much - to save a few grams?

John Sanderson · Post by **John Sanderson** » 15 Sep 2011 14:25

you pay twice the price for a chain you find it lasts half as long so you actually pay 4x as much

I had to read that twice - but cripes the man has a SERIOUS point there!!!!

AlanW · Post by **AlanW** » 15 Sep 2011 15:58

Neil Compton wrote:Yer but do you feel any noticeable difference when riding a different speed bike? Thats the question i'm asking because i feel if a chains life and strength is drastically reduced just for an extra gear or two then is it really worth going to 10 speed.

It all depends on how you wish to view it really Neil, and it was same argument when 6 speed came out to replace the 5 speed, 7 speed to 8 speed etc etc etc

Its also fair to add that I am very disappointed with how quickly the chains wear. But I also think that the main reason for this is poor chain alignment, ie using 39 at the front and a 12 sprocket at the rear. Chains are designed to run in a straight line, not curved like the above example will.

But despite the poor wear factor, I do like 10 speed as that one extra sprocket gives me exactly the ratio that I like, with only one tooth increments.

So if you are more than happy with what you have, then don't change.

Post by **CakeStop** » 15 Sep 2011 16:01

John Sanderson wrote:I had to read that twice - but cripes the man has a SERIOUS point there!!!!

About £1 for a 50 mile ride, just in chain wear, compared to 25p for a standard 10sp chain or 15p for an 8sp chain.

slogfester · Post by **slogfester** » 16 Sep 2011 17:48

I should have added that I am running a compact chainset (50/34) which -I am told- significantly decreases chain life. Moreover, I also have a 27 granny (as part of a 27-12 cassette) which again doesnt help things, but I never ever run 27 to 50 or 12 to 34.

I dont feel the need for any more gears, but I sometimes wish (mainly when I'm in the final sprint of the Sat morning chain gang from Speeds Bromsgrove which is a fast downhill finish) I had a bigger top gear. Hence I could (in my mind) justify moving to the 7900 Dura Ace that can handle a greater spread, e.g. 28-11.

Clive · Post by **Clive** » 19 Sep 2011 19:29

Thanks for all the answers.

Rotating chains sounds a good idea, although not sure I would get around to it or be bothered. I tend to keep going then just bin them at 1% worn.

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