Minimum bike cleaning routine?

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Tim
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Minimum bike cleaning routine?

Post by Tim » 23 Jan 2013 07:55

Ok so my bike would win prizes for being the least cleaned/worse maintained!

I occasionally (10-15 times in 3 and a half years) spray it down with a hosepipe, and scrub chain/cassette with a fairy/bike degreaser mix, dont allow to dry and stick some bike lub on chain (wet in winter/dry in summer); and spray cassette and brakes with GT85 (think its called that!) and finish with a wipe of frame and forks with baby wipes.

If it brakes I take it to Ben at Venture to have a new chain/cassette etc fitted on his advice. Think gone through 3 or 4 chains and cassettes in c10k miles, one large front cog, new cables once and replaced jockeys once, and worn out one set of mavic aksium wheels recently. I have had the chain snap once on commute home but managed to get in a taxi to Bens shop! O and the left crank fell off cycling along the pershore (managed to stop a Range Rover before it ran over it) but Ben again sorted that!

Its 105 10speed compact groupset.

So what would be a better, but minimum clean/lube routine?

I will never be a 'rotate 3 chains' sort of person! I just want to ride, avoid chains snapping and Im happy to keep Ben in business.

Was going to buy some MucOff (pink bottle stuff) and a cassette/chain brush but any advice on what best cleaner/degreaser/lubes are would be great.

Cheers!

Tim

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Philip Whiteman
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Post by Philip Whiteman » 23 Jan 2013 09:18

I can just hear Alan screaming at the moment.

Hosepipes, muck off, not after every ride ..........

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George
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Re: Minimum bike cleaning routine?

Post by George » 23 Jan 2013 09:41

Tim wrote:I occasionally (10-15 times in 3 and a half years) spray it down
You are hard on my heels, then, Tim. Keep this up and you'll soon overtake my lifetime bike-hosedown count.

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John Sanderson
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Post by John Sanderson » 23 Jan 2013 09:44

Didn't realise Muc Off was a no no, i use it quite a bit. Hosepipe also gets used a bit but with care, always spray downward, not on max pressure and don't blast away anywhere near a bearing.

If you want to look after your bike then if it is dirty clean it. In the winter that means almost every time you ride it, in the summer less often. Look after the moving parts, dirty frame and rims is less of a concern. The Flipside is you'll eat through transmission parts. If you are happy to accept that then fine...

Products wise, i use whatever it is that i bought years ago and still hadn't run out. Muc off gets my vote, fairy washing up liquid is a no as i've been told it eats the rubber seals, I've also bought specific degreaser for the chain bath. The bath doesn't get used any more but the fluid works well on a rag.

Lubing with gt85 is my approach, apparently wd40 holds grit and forms a horrible abrasive paste, chain wise i use whatever chain lube the lbs stocks...
It's all about the bike.

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AlanW
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Post by AlanW » 23 Jan 2013 10:05

Philip Whiteman wrote:I can just hear Alan screaming at the moment.

Hosepipes, muck off, not after every ride ..........
Hosepipe.... yes, Muc off....certainly NOT, unless items have been removed from the bike in the first place and cleaned in isolation, ie chain and cassette.

When Muc Off or any other degreaser type of cleaner is applied and sprayed all over the bike the evil stuff will seep into everywhere where it really shouldn't be going and as a result will wash out any lubrication, ie jockey wheel bearings, free hub, wheel bearings, cables etc etc.

Maybe not at first, but over a period of time, until items seize and fail.

IMHO there is no substitute for stripping and cleaning your bike properly to be honest. Spraying the whole bike or even just the drive train with degreaser or WD40/GT85 will only ever end in tears. :cry:
"You only need two tools: WD40 and duct tape. If it doesn't move and it should, use WD40. If it moves and it shouldn't, use duct tape"

Tim
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Post by Tim » 23 Jan 2013 20:01

Cheers for the advice. Good to see different approaches.

Yep at least do at least know to keep hose pressure low.

Would love to "remove cassette and chain and clean in isolation" but don't have the time, or the cassette/chain tools, or know how to use them!

"Don't blast away anywhere near a bearing." I won't intentionally, as I don't know what one is or what one looks like! Surely Im not alone here?!?

Is there anyone else who just replaces chain when it snaps or when your bike is in a shop for some other work and the wrokshop guy tells you it needs replacing? Or does everyone check the wear weekly?!

So if Muc Off and Fairy and any degreaser is a no no, what to use for a basic clean and scrub of chain casette before applying lube?

Maybe I should go to the maintenance night next week!? Or just use the money Im saving by not driving to work to book the bike into Venture once every 8weeks for some TLC?

Seeing my Dad on Saturday, will be telling him he's failed as a Father!![/quote]

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AlanW
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Post by AlanW » 23 Jan 2013 20:18

Tim wrote: Is there anyone else who just replaces chain when it snaps.....
Oh dear, Tim......we need to talk!

I check mine weekly and when its getting near the maximum limit, probably check it after each ride.

You most certainly need to invest in a Park Chain Checker - HERE
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Post by Tim » 23 Jan 2013 20:46

But do I though?!? It's snapped once in 10,000miles in monsoon like conditions?

If its just to reduce wear by 20-40% to save a bit of cash Im not sure its worth the time to save the £st? Id prefer to use my time riding or playing with my kids or having a beer and be £40 a year worse off.

Of course if you tell me checking the chain and maintaining it better will make me go faster, Im all ears!

Evans didnt tell me any of this when I handed over the cycle to work voucher!
In fact the only thing I remember them saying was "dont go for a Bianchi your shoulders arent strong enough" and "I wouldnt buy a Cannondale we have lots of problems with their frames and regular reliability issues" They were obviously on a lot more commission for Trek and Spesh bikes! I think that advice is now proven completely wrong in the case of my Cannondale which has caused me zero significant issues (whilst being treated so poorly by me) but that's another story belonging to the bike shop post!

Maybe see you next Thursday night Alan for a chat or in Newport!

Pedlo Mudguardo
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Post by Pedlo Mudguardo » 23 Jan 2013 21:18

Hi Tim,

Call me weird but, when I'm in the right mood, I actually like cleaning my bike.
As we live in the same road I don't mind sorting out your Cannondale any time, no probs mate just drop it round no charge.

Working in a bike shop I obviously see a fair portion of the cycling spectrum from ride it 'til it falls apart, shell out a lump sum to replace and repeat etc. to the obsessive strip and clean after every ride just in case approach.
To be honest I think both are completely fine but I just love the feeling of riding a nice clean,freshly lubed bike.

The thought of holding everyone up on a group ride because I haven't kept my bike in order would kill me with embarrassment.

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AlanW
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Post by AlanW » 23 Jan 2013 21:25

Pedlo Mudguardo wrote: Call me weird but, when I'm in the right mood, I actually like cleaning my bike.
Ditto
Pedlo Mudguardo wrote: But I just love the feeling of riding a nice clean,freshly lubed bike.
Ditto and well said Nic
"You only need two tools: WD40 and duct tape. If it doesn't move and it should, use WD40. If it moves and it shouldn't, use duct tape"

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Post by IanT » 23 Jan 2013 21:37

I'm with Nic and Alan on this one, maybe it's mild OCD but it winds me up to ride a bike if it isn't in near enough perfect working order and spotless before every ride. I tend to replace the chain on average around once a year, more frequently if the conditions are like they were in 2012. I also enjoy the hours I spend cleaning the bike after every ride and have learned a lot in the last 2 years on maintenance and repairs, largely through making mistakes then calling Nic for help! I'm yet to feel confident when it comes to wheel hubs and truing wheels, but most other issues I can now tackle.

Oddly, whilst I take this approach as outlined above religiously with my road bikes, I am completely the opposite with my commuter hack, which I clean once a year and ride till it falls apart. I've never liked that bike...

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Post by Alistair Hey » 23 Jan 2013 22:14

IanT wrote: I also enjoy the hours I spend cleaning the bike after every ride.

I do also.

if i find anything wrong i can fix it at home, better than having a roadside malfunction...

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Post by rdleaper » 23 Jan 2013 23:28

I'm definitely in Tim's camp! If I had a garage or garden/yard I'd wash my bike more often but I live in a flat so it's often not practical. I tend to just wipe it down with water/muc off, though I've just bought a chain cleaner. I've had 3 chains/cassettes replaced on a combined 7.5k miles or so on my road and commuter bikes so about the same. It must be a year since my hybrid got a wash and my road bike still needs a good clean from December's riding (not been on it yet this month :()

The carpet in my spare room is wrecked from keeping my bikes in there!

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AlanW
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Post by AlanW » 24 Jan 2013 05:49

rdleaper wrote:I've had 3 chains/cassettes replaced on a combined 7.5k miles or so on my road and commuter bikes so about the same.
That seems rather excessive?

There is no reason to replace the cassette every time you replace the chain, providing of course that you don't let your chain go to far.

On average, I probably replace my chain at around 3000 miles or when its gets to 1mm wear (absolute maximum), according to the Park Chain checker. But at 0.75mm wear I am checking it after most rides.

I then replace the chain and repeat this a further two times, on the fourth chain I will then replace the cassette as well. However, some people alternate between chains, but I have never quite got my head around that principle to be honest, but you do whatever works for you really.

Of course, you can just leave the same chain and cassette on till the chain breaks. But from my experience with the tolerance being so close on 10sp drive trains the drop in shifting performance and how well it changes gear is huge as it wears.
"You only need two tools: WD40 and duct tape. If it doesn't move and it should, use WD40. If it moves and it shouldn't, use duct tape"

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Post by laurence_cooley » 24 Jan 2013 09:30

IanT wrote:I'm with Nic and Alan on this one, maybe it's mild OCD but it winds me up to ride a bike if it isn't in near enough perfect working order and spotless before every ride.
Someone should conduct a study of the relationship between having OCD tendencies and being a cyclist. There's surely some correlation.
IanT wrote:Oddly, whilst I take this approach as outlined above religiously with my road bikes, I am completely the opposite with my commuter hack, which I clean once a year and ride till it falls apart. I've never liked that bike...
I recognise this. I currently have the use of two gears on my hybrid.

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Post by Philip Whiteman » 24 Jan 2013 09:37

AlanW wrote: On average, I probably replace my chain at around 3000 miles or when its gets to 1mm wear (absolute maximum), according to the Park Chain checker. But at 0.75mm wear I am checking it after most rides.
...

Of course, you can just leave the same chain and cassette on till the chain breaks. But from my experience with the tolerance being so close on 10sp drive trains the drop in shifting performance and how well it changes gear is huge as it wears.
I back this suggestion. I use a chain checker and it was certainly a good purchase.

Many moons ago, I paid little attention to chain wear. It can be dangerous to let a chain wear to much, as I found to my cost when I fell flat onto my face after a snap.
Last edited by Philip Whiteman on 24 Jan 2013 10:58, edited 2 times in total.

Tim
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Post by Tim » 24 Jan 2013 10:52

I do actually enjoy the cleaning, I have strong OCD on the rare occassions I do clean anything just that as 95% of my rides are a 7mile daily commute (on my road bike year round, please dont tell me to get a winter bike, cant clean one road bike properly!) I dont have the time to clean it 10times a week or even 5 as I get home. As I walk in the door a child is generally thrown at me within seconds!!

But definately think I need to find some middle ground. Will aim for once a month and before every proper ride.

Agreed on the safety issue. The time it did snap I was fast approaching Robin Hood Island in heavy traffic. Luckily gears stuck just before it snapped so Id slowed right down.

Nic thanks for amazingly kind offer but can't let another man look after her, would feel like letting my wife go on holiday with someone else!!

Will though pop into your shop and look at getting some products (better lube/brush and maybe a chain wear tool/cassette tool/chain quick link too?). I wont tell Alan if you recommend MucOff! Or maybe I should just go for a winter bike that I never clean!?!

You in the shop til 5 today or tomorrow?

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Post by rdleaper » 24 Jan 2013 13:22

AlanW wrote:
rdleaper wrote:I've had 3 chains/cassettes replaced on a combined 7.5k miles or so on my road and commuter bikes so about the same.
That seems rather excessive?
Not really; it's 3 changes in total after 7.5k (1 on my road bike and 2 on my hybrid) so about every 2 to 2.5k miles (not much more often than yours). The chain cleaner and wet lube for winter I now have should help increase that too.

As for the cassette, I'll take Nic/Bike Pro's advice next time the chain needs replacing.

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Post by AlanW » 24 Jan 2013 15:59

rdleaper wrote:
AlanW wrote:
rdleaper wrote:I've had 3 chains/cassettes replaced on a combined 7.5k miles or so on my road and commuter bikes so about the same.
That seems rather excessive?
Not really; it's 3 changes in total after 7.5k (1 on my road bike and 2 on my hybrid) so about every 2 to 2.5k miles (not much more often than yours). The chain cleaner and wet lube for winter I now have should help increase that too.

As for the cassette, I'll take Nic/Bike Pro's advice next time the chain needs replacing.
I took it that you were replacing your cassette each time you replaced your chain?

Just be careful regarding winter chain lube, (IMHO) its not all that its made out to be. While it is very viscous so that it does not wash of easy, as a result it also attracts a huge amount of crap so then becomes nothing more that a grinding device.

Again in my IMHO you are far better to clean and apply new lube, and ProLInk ProGold lube is most certainly the best chain lubrication that I have used and is suitable for all year usage. HERE
"You only need two tools: WD40 and duct tape. If it doesn't move and it should, use WD40. If it moves and it shouldn't, use duct tape"

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Post by rdleaper » 25 Jan 2013 13:27

AlanW wrote:
rdleaper wrote:
AlanW wrote:
rdleaper wrote:I've had 3 chains/cassettes replaced on a combined 7.5k miles or so on my road and commuter bikes so about the same.
That seems rather excessive?
Not really; it's 3 changes in total after 7.5k (1 on my road bike and 2 on my hybrid) so about every 2 to 2.5k miles (not much more often than yours). The chain cleaner and wet lube for winter I now have should help increase that too.

As for the cassette, I'll take Nic/Bike Pro's advice next time the chain needs replacing.
I took it that you were replacing your cassette each time you replaced your chain?

Just be careful regarding winter chain lube, (IMHO) its not all that its made out to be. While it is very viscous so that it does not wash of easy, as a result it also attracts a huge amount of crap so then becomes nothing more that a grinding device.

Again in my IMHO you are far better to clean and apply new lube, and ProLInk ProGold lube is most certainly the best chain lubrication that I have used and is suitable for all year usage. HERE
You could well be right. The first time chain/cassette were both replaced one of the cogs was worn and the chain slipped off it (but not so much the other cogs). The other 2 times were by Evans who say both should be replaced at the same time; this might not be necessary though.

Using proper lube, chain cleaner and going to Bike Pro should reduce any unnecessary costs in future!

Cheers for advice on winter lube, I'll make sure I clean my chain regularly when using it.

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Post by Philmondo » 25 Jan 2013 17:34

When I first got my road bike a few years ago I was pretty clueless about anything other than the most basic maintenance. The thing that helped me most was probably my copy of Zinn and the Art of Road Bike Maintenance. A great book that enabled me to even go so far as to change a bottom bracket - quite a success for me :) Anyway, I really enjoy tinkering with my bikes now and can't stand it when they're poorly tuned.

Incidentally, thieves are apparently not concerned with bike maintenance; my Zinn book had been removed from its drawer in the shed and rudely discarded on the floor. It had clearly been trodden on too, having been left bearing a partial footwear impression. They should have taken it, as the headset on my Felt needed tightening and I doubt they'll be equipped to do the job. Still, I'm glad they didn't as its seen me through some tricky procedures.
I can gather all the news I need on the weather report.

rdleaper
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Post by rdleaper » 25 Jan 2013 20:00

Philmondo wrote:...having been left bearing a partial footwear impression.
Forensic evidence maybe? :wink:

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chalkie
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Post by chalkie » 26 Jan 2013 14:05

with any luck we'll find their bodies soon - silent witness :twisted:
and on the 7th day God created CLEATS..!

jonnyri
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Post by jonnyri » 26 Jan 2013 14:41

It's a shame they didn't take it, they might have turned over a new leaf

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