Pain in the Back!!!

Nicks_77 · Post by **Nicks_77** » 01 Dec 2014 15:00

Advice/help required....

Over the last few weeks of riding the bike I've been suffering with a sore lower back either side of my spine. It generally flares up around 15-20 miles into a ride.

I have changed pedals in the last month or so from Look Keo's to Shimano Mtb style ones. I've altered my saddle height to account for the increase in stack but this has made little difference so I'm at a loss as to the cause.

The problem is more present when climbing hills seated. Overall I'm happy with the bike setup and don't feel as though I'm over reaching as it's felt comfortable during rides in the summer.

The problem has only manifested itself since the above mentioned pedal swap.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated..

petemarshall · Post by **petemarshall** » 01 Dec 2014 16:02

Worth investigating the cleats. I suffer from low back pain and an injured knee. Both of these conditions are a lot more severe when using spd style cleats and shoes on my touring bike and much better when using Look keo pedals and cleats. This year I switched from grey to black keo cleats. This improved things even more. My condition was improved by removing all the float from the road shoes. Unfortunately this is just not possible with spd pedals so I use them as little as possible. For shopping etc. Otherwise I always use road shoes and pedals and walk as little as possible.
I also use either a Brooks swallow or a Fizick saddle. The Fizik sold for"Bulls " ( which I think is polite marketing speak for old and fat) is slightly raised at the rear this certainly works for me, giving some support on ascending and reducing lower back pain after a long time in the saddle.

AlanW · Post by **AlanW** » 01 Dec 2014 16:05

Nick,

I am also prone to the exact same problem as you, and I think that the recent pedal change will have made no difference. I do however think that its caused by being to tense. Because it has happened once or twice before each time you go out for a ride you now expect it to happen every time so your muscles tense up.

I can offer no medical explanation, other than my own experience with my current bike/set up. As you know I do hundreds of miles on my Ridley yet one day something will spark a lower back pain, very similar to what you have described. I will then have it for days even weeks and while it lasts it ruins nearly every ride. Then it will go as quickly as it came, and I'm convinced its because I have relaxed a bit more.

Saying all that, I have on occasions flipped the stem over just to get me a bit more upright for a while.

Andy Terry · Post by **Andy Terry** » 01 Dec 2014 16:50

See a physical therapist of some kind. They will probably advise a programme of stretching and strengthening designed to counteract the effects of spending long periods bent double in the saddle.

Nicks_77 · Post by **Nicks_77** » 01 Dec 2014 17:16

Thanks for the advice chaps. It is weirdly since the pedal change though Alan so I may swap back to the Look Keo's for a bit.

One thing I did notice whilst out riding earlier was the additional effort I was having to put through my right leg compared to the left. On looking at the cleats at home the right was set further forward than the left so I have now moved this back in line to match the left.

I've ridden the same bike, set up in the same way during the summer with the Look's no problem at all. It's only a slight twinge on one side in most cases but it doesn't half bugger your ride up.

I think the saddle height is fine but I may experiment putting it a touch higher due to the stack effect.

It may be that I just don't get on with SPD's at all!!

petemarshall · Post by **petemarshall** » 01 Dec 2014 18:00

Andy Terry wrote:See a physical therapist of some kind. They will probably advise a programme of stretching and strengthening designed to counteract the effects of spending long periods bent double in the saddle.

Hopefully if they know about cycling they may do a little more. It was my sports masseur who led me to investigate the issue of pedals and their effects on my back. She anaylised my posture and made suggestions about what could be causing back pain. In my case the pain was off the bike and after long rides, rather than on the bike. The pain also went when I stretched out as if riding. She suggested locking my feet as the movement allowed by spd cleats and the keo cleats float could lead to the problems.

She also found that what I thought was one leg being slightly longer than the other was in fact just down to posture. Unfortunately it was too late for me to really correct this, but stretching and strengthening exercises have helped.

I had previously been following what seemed to be the logical things to do, raising the stem height and having more float; when in fact exactly the opposite was what worked for me.

Tim · Post by **Tim** » 01 Dec 2014 18:26

Mike Grice is offering 3 massages for £25 in December. If they are with him or one of the sports therapists that work at his clinic then this a bargain, may not solve the issue if it's something else like pedals/car/pc but def won't do any harm.

Search Birmingham Movement Therapy on FB

dweben · Post by **dweben** » 01 Dec 2014 19:48

I've had back problems for 15 odd years or so no -- seems to run in the family but have some tips!

You say it's worse when seated on climbs. I've had this and you may notice, if you ever see me, is that my saddle point down a few degrees. It lightens the load on the discs by reducing the curve which is under stress. (I have two knackered discs!) I've never noticed changing road pedals make any difference whatsoever. I do find a carbon frame to be less harsh though.

Those who get it during long rides. It's dehydration which does this. I more or less restrict myself to 2hrs riding nowadays, at any pace, or around 50 miles. Affects me more 'cos I'm a sweaty git and no amount of drinking compensates for profuse sweating over time! Is why I don't really do club runs any more...

Another thing is you need to stretch. All those muscles in the lower back flow over your backside down into your hamstrings. Just simple toe touching and after a month or so you'll notice the difference. Tight muscles pull at joints.

Learn to ride with a decent posture. Nice relaxed straight back and change pedaling to high cadence all reduces twisting motion on the spine, along with the usual core muscles. Use the tops of the bars on seated climbs -- stronger posture for supporting your back. Don't stand up too often.

I've combined all that above and I more or less don't suffer any more. Key for me is the discipline of not riding for more than 2-2.5 hrs which is quite hard but pretty much transformed my riding from wondering how much my back was hurting to hardly worrying about it all and being able to go quick

Bit long but it's taken me years to work all this lot out while my discs were attempting to exit my back! Worked though.

Philip Whiteman · Post by **Philip Whiteman** » 01 Dec 2014 20:00

Okay, there is no straight answer to this problem as there are too many variables. So I can only give you my personal history:

1. Prior to a year ago, back pain was induced by the bike and pedal geometry incorrectly set, albeit by a few mm. Bike fitting was undertaken at Worcester

2. More recently, back pain induced by a tight IT band. This has been resolved by (i) massage (ii) religiously stretching post exercise (iii) correcting my standing and walking position through the provision new orthotics by my podiatrist.

It is too easy to blame the bike when other factors may need to be taken into account. I can recommend Sam Boswell for massage or for podiatry, Robert Hill of New Clinic, Droitwich. However, massage is only treatment and you may still need to find the root cause. In my instance the root cause was a dropped right hip caused by a flat arch and insufficient post exercise warm-downs.

Nicks_77 · Post by **Nicks_77** » 01 Dec 2014 22:15

Thanks to all who have offered advice. I'm sure its nothing serious, more annoying than anything. I shall start with the obvious and work my way through the other suggestions.

AlanW · Post by **AlanW** » 01 Dec 2014 22:28

Philip Whiteman wrote:In my instance the root cause was a dropped right hip caused by a flat arch and insufficient post exercise warm-downs.

Or in summary, its called getting old!

Dave Cox · Post by **Dave Cox** » 02 Dec 2014 16:44

I hadn't realised so many members had back problems. Neck and shoulder aches have eventually limited my mileage for year but its has got a lot better thanks to better bike fits and probably more exercise. Now lower back can seize up - first time 2011 on the Galibier after the Telegraph - had to stop for a bit to ease it. Now I get a bit of it on less challenging climbs. Cleaning two bikes yesterday on the stand yesterday afternoon was almost as bad. Need a bike stand fit I think or special stretches and a massage!

Nicks_77 · Post by **Nicks_77** » 05 Dec 2014 17:18

Since I have switched back to my Look Keo's the lower back pain I was experiencing has gone.

I've now done around 70 miles on different pedals and have not had any problems.

Obviously SPD's don't suit me.....

AlanW · Post by **AlanW** » 05 Dec 2014 17:38

Nicks_77 wrote:Since I have switched back to my Look Keo's the lower back pain I was experiencing has gone.

I've now done around 70 miles on different pedals and have not had any problems.

Obviously SPD's don't suit me.....

Thats good news Nick and somewhat intriguing, perhaps someone could explain why this could be?

petemarshall · Post by **petemarshall** » 05 Dec 2014 19:22

As I pointed out in my first post both my knee and lower back problems were aided by using look black cleats as advised by my therapist. Locking the feet rather than allowing the considerable float that spd style cleats. I still use spd cleats for shopping etc but not on any ride more than a couple of hours.
Obviously if I had learnt a decent peddling style in the first place. .....

AlanW · Post by **AlanW** » 05 Dec 2014 19:27

So my next question must be, what colour Keo cleats are you now using Nick?

George · Post by **George** » 06 Dec 2014 10:26

Andy Terry wrote:See a physical therapist of some kind. They will probably advise a programme of stretching and strengthening designed to counteract the effects of spending long periods bent double in the saddle.

Yes. Do this, Nick, and get stretching.

And never stop stretching. I'm just getting back into action after a couple of months of very low activity after a recurrence of a disc problem that hasn't bothered me for 25 years. Why did the is disc go again after such a long interval? Because a couple of years ago, I crashed and cracked a couple of ribs. As a result, I couldn't do core exercises for a few weeks and completely got out of the stretching habit. Core stability and flexibility goes and then one individual disc (with a longstanding weakness) gets overloaded.

Back problems never completely go away, so prevention/nipping in the bud followed by permanent vigilance is vital.

Oh ... one other thing. If I were you I'd discuss the precise 'domestic' arrangements with Mrs Shenton.

Grogz · Post by **Grogz** » 07 Dec 2014 19:37

Nick, the back ache you describe is most frequently caused by a saddle that's too high. I don't believe in coincidences, so I'd suggest you get some help in adjusting your overall fit.