Thats it, I've finally sucumbed to tubeless tyres UPDATE

AlanW · Post by **AlanW** » 29 May 2015 19:34

Some my recall my some brief encounter to the world of tubeless road tyres a while back - HERE

Anyway, I just purchased a pair of 23mm Schwable One tubeless tyres and set about the task of fitting them this afternoon. I went for 23mm version as I wasn't sure how wide they would be in the real world and I don't have a huge amount of mudguard clearance. But now I have seen the 23mm's, I think that I could have got away with the 25mm version now.....but arr well, maybe next time.

Overall the installation was really quick, simple and pretty painless to be honest and an awful lot easier than fitting non tubeless MTB tyres as tubeless!!

I used a compressor for the first one but just a track pump for the second, no problems with either. Both tyres inflated and seated instantly up and on to the wheel rim beads. But to be fair I did use tyre soap and I think that I would certainly recommend using it.

I would also suggest NOT to put any sealant in until you have the tyre beads seated on both sides of the wheel rim. Then deflate the tyre, remove the valve core and syringe in the 2ozs of liquid Latex, then re inflate up to the required pressure.

The Schwable tyres were a little tight to fit, but no worse than any some road tyres that I have fitted in the past to be honest. I didn't need to utilize any levers either, just made sure that the tyre was seated right in the wheel well all the way around to give you the most spare tyre to play with. The last bit you can roll over the rim and then pull the tyre upwards to allow the bead to unfold underneath its self.

But in the event of some serious side wall damage out on the road I dont think that I would like to have to remove the tyre plus the liquid Latex contents in order to fit a tube by the side of the road. I would imagine that would be a right swine as everything would be plastered in the Latex sealant. With the best will in the world that's not gonna be a couple of minutes repair is it?

So, lets see some figures then:-

Shimano 6700 Ultegra (front) wheel inc skewer - 738 grammes

As above fitted with a 23mm GP4000s tyre and Continental 'Light' innertube - 1025 grammes

As above wheel, now fitted with 23mm Schwable One Tubeless tyre and 2oz of Stans No Tubes - 1126 grammes

Making a total weight difference of 101 grammes

While I was at it, I decided to weigh some other tyres just out of interest:-

Schwable One (Tubeless) 23mm - 297 grammes
GP4000S 23mm - 212 grammes
4 Season 23mm - 242 grammes
Pro 3 23mm - 189 grammes
Pro 4 Endurance 23mm - 232 grammes
Pro 4 Endurance 25mm - 245 grammes
Vittoria Pave 25mm - 261 grammes

Continetal Race 28 'Light' innertube 42mm - 75 grammes

2ozs of Stans No Tubes - 91 grammes

So I guess that its road test time now and lets see how much of a difference it makes or feels. As a starting point I will be trying 80/85psi in the front and 90 psi in the rear.

Wish me luck......

AlanW · Post by **AlanW** » 31 May 2015 12:50

Of course I can only comment on the Schwable One version, but I have just done 43 miles and I have to say that I am seriously impressed.

Certainly no more harsh a ride than any other tyre that I have ever ridden on to be honest. BUT..........the feel of them is very addictive and its even more noticeable when you get out of the saddle. They feel very much like a tubular tyre, very responsive and they certainly appear to be a fast rolling tyre. I even did a couple of quickish sprints up some short damp inclines and no apparent issues with grip, and given they are new tyres and not properly scrubbed in was equally surprising.

So the first part of the test is therefore deemed to be a success with a huge thumbs up.

The second part of the test is how well the sealant responds in the event of a **flat**?

And finally, the third and final test, what happens in the event of a catastrophic failure that necessitates the need to install a inner tube. To be honest, I predict an acropoliptic mess and turmoil!!

AlanW · Post by **AlanW** » 26 Oct 2015 12:58

AlanW wrote: And finally, the third and final test, what happens in the event of a catastrophic failure that necessitates the need to install a inner tube. To be honest, I predict an acropoliptic mess and turmoil!!

Well the third and final test was last Saturday, when I rode over some broken glass and I ended up with a 10mm slash across the tyre and of course instant deflation.

In truth no amount of sealant was ever going to seal that, despite my vain attempts at trying.

And there was little point in attempting to add an innertube unless I could have stuck something inside the tyre to prevent the tube was protruding out via this 10mm slash. But with the sealant still very much in evidence nothing was ever going to adhere to the inner face of the tyre long enough to get me home. Not withstanding the fact that the tyres are a "very" tight fit (understatement), let alone having the sealant all over your hands and over the rim etc to hinder you even more. So it was phone call home to Mrs W to come and get me.

To be fair, even a normal clincher tyre and tube combination would have cut up as badly as the tubeless one did. BUT.....at least you could have stuck a Park Tyre Repair Boot on the inside of the tyre in order to get you home.

Consequently the slash has rendered the tubeless tyre scrap as I am not prepared to risk repairing it, which is a real shame as despite the mileage on them to date, it has worn really well.

I would guesstimate that the rear has lasted at least double the miles of my normal clincher tyres. Whether that is down to it being tubeless or the construction of the Schwable One tyre, I dont know?

Conclusion
Yes it is a proper faff to set up but to be honest I have enjoyed the 6000 **flat** free miles ridden on the tubeless tyres and no more harsh a feel than a normal tyre/tube combination. During this period of time and to the best of my knowledge no **flat**s, other than a minor cut a couple of weeks ago. But the sealant worked and it got me home okay, which is the plus point. However, the subseqeunt removal of the tyre in order to repair it was even more of a faff. And back then I questioned myself as to if it was really worth the hassle or not?

But needless to say I decided to stay with them.

However, after Saturdays more major incident, with regret it was the straw that broke the camels back and the remaining good tubeless front tyre has been removed and clinchers and tubes have been refitted front and rear.

Andy Terry · Post by **Andy Terry** » 26 Oct 2015 13:19

Can you run tubeless tyres without the latex - i.e. just like car tyres - or do they leak? If you can, then could a small hole be repaired with a patch on the inside of the tyre - again, just like a car? And then if you got a big hole, you just use a patch and a tube.

AlanW · Post by **AlanW** » 26 Oct 2015 13:29

Andy Terry wrote:Can you run tubeless tyres without the latex - i.e. just like car tyres - or do they leak? If you can, then could a small hole be repaired with a patch on the inside of the tyre - again, just like a car? And then if you got a big hole, you just use a patch and a tube.

From my own experiance, yes you need the sealant in order to get the tyre to seal on the rim. Even then, I still used to suffer minor loss of air over a week, 10 to 15psi. Which I could never quite understand why and both wheels had the same "problem".

Plus without the sealant in it sort of defeats the purpose really. But that said I can see your logic.

Its a real shame really, because even taking into account the faffing about, I still rate tubeless. Its also fair to add, I have been tubeless on the MTB for years and no such issues at all.

AlanW · Post by **AlanW** » 26 Oct 2015 13:35

Another point I forgot to mention, is that the sealant does dry up so it needs to be checked every two to six months. My experiance is that heat quickly drys it out, so in the summer months every two months it needs to be checked. This was part of the reason why my first small cut semi failed, as I had'nt enough sealant remaining in liquild form in order to seal it properly......doh!

Its not so much of a faff to check, but you do need to break the bead on a small section of the tyre on order to gauge how much sealant is remaining in liquild form.

Needless to say, this process can be a little messy

Plus, if every couple of months you keep adding 2ozs of sealant by the end of the year you'll be sure never to get a **flat** as you'll effectively have a solid tyre!!

StuartWhite · Post by **StuartWhite** » 26 Oct 2015 15:17

So then Alan, would this be an alternative to tubs for Cyclocross?

AlanW · Post by **AlanW** » 26 Oct 2015 17:54

StuartWhite wrote:So then Alan, would this be an alternative to tubs for Cyclocross?

Good question Stuart, and I am inclined to say yes. But not if you intend to keep changing tyres over every week to suit the conditions and not unless you like spending time in the garage of course.

But the the beauty with tubeless is the abililty to run really low pressures without any risk of getting pinch **flat**s. I have done four Hell of the North Cotswolds using tubeless and didnt have any issues what so ever.

As a matter of fact I have just converted my winter MTB wheels fitted with spiked tyres over to tubeless as well.

AlanW · Post by **AlanW** » 26 Oct 2015 19:44

This is what liquid latex like look after a few thousand miles.....NOT so liquid!