Revised Club Run Guidelines

Details of and discussion about club runs

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Beacon RCC
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Revised Club Run Guidelines

Post by Beacon RCC » 06 Dec 2013 19:00

There was some discussion about safety on club runs at last night's AGM.

Various suggestions were made which will be considered at the next committee meeting including nominating an experienced member on each run to ride at or near the back to monitor conduct and to provide any advice that is necessary.

There was widespread agreement that that our club run guidelines should be updated immediately to make it clear that headphones must not be used for the safety of all concerned.

http://www.beaconrcc.org.uk/resources/c ... lines.html

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Post by Philip Whiteman » 07 Dec 2013 09:22

'Experienced rider' at the rear'

1. A good idea

A runs generally consist of experienced riders, so I am assuming this problem is connected to B & C groups.

It is worth noting two instances earlier this year when the A run was subdivided into two portions to improve safe riding conditions. The second portion was located approximately 200m behind the first. In one instance, where a genuine and not a careless accident occurred, the potential number of victims was substantially reduced by the split. I give credit to Ian Taylor who led the split in the group on both occasions.

2. Problem

There is an obvious problem with this suggestion. The gaping hole derives from the lack of willing volunteers to lead club runs let alone Lantern Rouge riders! I just hope the unattributed AGM contributors are willing club run leaders and will be active participants in future. It is very easy to propose recommendations if you are not the persons charged with implementing the measures.


Headphones

1. A good idea:

I doubt anyone will object to this measure but has it actually been a problem in reality? I have not yet witnessed anyone using headphones although I am only present at 25% of available rides so may have missed such instances.

2. Problem:

There is a distinction between a single ear piece barking GPS route instructions in comparison to somebody listening to their I-Pod. The former poses little risk whilst the latter does. This distinction may need to be stated in the guidelines.

The club run guidelines do not restrict the 'use of' of tri-bars. Perhaps this should be included as well.

Overall Principles

When revising the club run guide lines, they must not become over zealous sets of rules and regulations that deter potential riders and leaders because of their onerous nature. Club runs must remain enjoyable events and not transmogrify into some form of bureaucratic or militaristic regime.
Beacon Audaxes The Kidderminster Killer & From Clee to Heaven 20.7.19; Autumn South Salopian 5.10.19. www.beaconrcc.org.uk/

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Post by CakeStop » 07 Dec 2013 11:13

It's not the intention to seek tail-end vounteers in advance but try to identify someone on the day, "this is Fred, he'll be keeping an eye on things from the back". In my experience of leading C runs, someone normally tends to look after the back without being asked to do so but I probably wouldn't have asked anyone if it had not happened naturally. The idea is to try to make sure that it happens and to encourage the provision of advice to less experienced riders (or even the more experienced if they do something daft).

There was no suggestion that the use of earphones has contributed to any incidents but it's a bit of a no-brainer that they represent a risk. There was indeed a suggestion that we shouldn't need to actually state this in the guidelines. In any case, our club runs are meant to be sociable rides and it's difficult to see how headphones fit in with that.

I noticed that Hopwood Ladies have a set of plain English guidelines titled "Ride Etiquette" which (apart from their misspelling) is perhaps a far better term. Maybe an open discussion about what the guidelines should include will raise awareness of the matters covered.
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Ed Moss
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Post by Ed Moss » 07 Dec 2013 12:18

Excellent idea, maybe a word on red lights would be useful as well?

I don't go on many club runs, but one of the few I've been on this year, I nearly witnessed a nasty accident in Bromsgrove where some rider(s) decided not to stop at a red light as the group had got split, a lot of it is common sense.
It makes us look bad in the eyes of motorists and we need all the help we can get.

I got shouted into shape by Steve Farrell http://www.cyclingarchives.com/coureurf ... eurid=3819 you certainly never did it again, maybe we should invite him down for a session :wink:

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Post by Philip Whiteman » 07 Dec 2013 12:46

CakeStop wrote:, "this is Fred , he'll be keeping an eye on things from the back"..
but to expect Fred [Dickson?] to turn out on every single club run is too much of an expectation.
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Post by CakeStop » 25 Sep 2015 21:54

Does the jury think this is useful....

http://www.smart-cyclist.com/essentials ... -guide.pdf
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Post by Si_Walker » 26 Sep 2015 12:16

Yes, this looks useful.
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Post by Philip Whiteman » 28 Sep 2015 09:47

CakeStop wrote:Does the jury think this is useful....

http://www.smart-cyclist.com/essentials ... -guide.pdf
Interesting.

Page 4 is possibly over complicated. Club runs do not use single, double or circular pacelines, with our groups tending towards double lines in parallel. For training bashes, page 4 is perfectly reasonable but their instructions as they stand, could confuse newbie riders.

The guidance fails to include guidance on particular shouts although it does mention "stopping". Perhaps this is due to local etiquettes. I recall reading somewhere that group rides in differing parts of the country use different shouts. Whereas we may shout, "car up", others shout "car behind" - the latter being my own preference as the shout is much more instructive and in plain English.
Beacon Audaxes The Kidderminster Killer & From Clee to Heaven 20.7.19; Autumn South Salopian 5.10.19. www.beaconrcc.org.uk/

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Post by CakeStop » 28 Sep 2015 20:10

Smart-Cyclist.com offer club 'branded' versions of this but it's clearly not specific to club runs (although most of the principles apply). Furthermore, it may include one or two things that differ from our practice. For example, I think we tend to single out by pulling in behind the rider to the left not in front other than in circumstances where it make sense to do the opposite.
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Post by jdtate101 » 28 Sep 2015 23:02

Can't see any of the suggestions being objectionable. A Lantern Rouge is probably better off on a C or intro ride, I've not seen a need for it on an A or B run, although it can be a problem sometimes when people drop off the back without letting the group know to ease up. I can only think of a few occasions where riders got dropped and failed to shout resulting in the group going away, and most of those we realised quickly, backtracked and found them.
Headphones...no one should ride with them, club ride or not, it's stupid and dangerous and we should activity discourage their use.
Tri-bars...again should not be used on club runs as the reduction in reaction time in cases of sudden braking could lead to pile-ups. If people want to go really fast then they can do so solo, not in a group. The only exception to this would be if we were specifically training for a TTT (which wouldn't be on a club run).

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Post by slogfester » 29 Sep 2015 07:06

Not sure if it is included elsewhere, but it needs to be explicitly stated, no mid-wheel/half-wheeling, I.e. where some one sticks themselves in the middle of the pair of riders in front and often compounds the issue by half wheeling them too. Endangers all 4 riders (and $%& me off no end!) Useful racing tactic, infuriating in club rides. Some riders either don't know they are doing it or can't stop themselves.
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Post by petemarshall » 29 Sep 2015 07:27

I can't see anything wrong with the present guidelines as far as social rides are concerned.
Training rides are a different matter. I can't see how the club can issue one set of guidance that covers all possibilities of what may been done during a training ride.

The guidance pdf is far too prescriptive for a Sunday club run. It would turn what is supposed to be a social ride into a chain gang. I would not wish to implement it for Sunday rides and would continue to follow the present guidance and practise when leading.

On training rides the guidance doesn't cover all the different types of training that the club may be involved in as it is aimed only at chain gangs and pace lines rather than groups,and other eventualities. It is no substitute for coaching good practice which I would hope will be the case in the future.

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Post by George » 29 Sep 2015 12:34

I'm afraid that I don't understand what the proposal is. To replace our club run guidelines? To incorporate some of the SmartCyclist advice into our club run guidelines? (If so, which bits?) To add illustrations to our guidelines?

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Post by laurence_cooley » 29 Sep 2015 19:11

George wrote:I'm afraid that I don't understand what the proposal is. To replace our club run guidelines? To incorporate some of the SmartCyclist advice into our club run guidelines? (If so, which bits?) To add illustrations to our guidelines?
It's worth saying that the original post relates to a discussion at the AGM two years ago (although while it says "There was widespread agreement that that our club run guidelines should be updated immediately to make it clear that headphones must not be used for the safety of all concerned", the club run guidelines on the website don't seem to have been amended).

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Post by petemarshall » 29 Sep 2015 19:33

laurence_cooley wrote:
George wrote:I'm afraid that I don't understand what the proposal is. To replace our club run guidelines? To incorporate some of the SmartCyclist advice into our club run guidelines? (If so, which bits?) To add illustrations to our guidelines?
It's worth saying that the original post relates to a discussion at the AGM two years ago (although while it says "There was widespread agreement that that our club run guidelines should be updated immediately to make it clear that headphones must not be used for the safety of all concerned", the club run guidelines on the website don't seem to have been amended).
I have never seen anyone using headphones on a club run despite our lack of a rule. Could this be because people can apply common sense and don't really need a rule about something so obvious? Maybe I am an eternal optimist about people but why would anyone wear headphones on a social ride? We don't have rules about all sorts of things because they aren't a problem so why do we need more rules ?
Seems to me what we need is people to actually read the ones we have and follow them before we start adding even more.
It's supposed to be a fun morning out on a bike.... :D

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Post by CakeStop » 29 Sep 2015 20:16

No proposal George, this document was made available with an open offer for club branding so I thought I'd see what people thought. It wasn't intended to address the original thread but I thought better not to create another thread on a similar subject.

I'll have to check the AGM and Committee minutes / other discussions, I thought there was eventually a consensus that the guidelines shouldn't need to list every daft thing that people might potentially do but if amendments have been agreed I'll update the web site.
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Post by CakeStop » 29 Sep 2015 21:05

Actually it appears that the club run guidelines were amended on 6th Dec 2013 to include (about 2/3rds down):

"Good communication is vital when riding in a group. For the safety of everyone in the group, riders must not use earphones of any sort on our club runs."

I think perhaps this thread was originally intended to alert people to the fact that the guidelines had been amended and to stimulate further discussion.

Discussion at the following committee meeting focused on the other AGM suggestion about someone riding sweeper but it was agreed that, given difficulty getting volunteers to lead, while it was desirable to do so where possible it shouldn't be formalised as a rule.
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