Club runs - 15th May

Details of and discussion about club runs

Moderators: David Cole, WorcsPhil, Philip Whiteman, Beacon RCC, Andy Terry

laurence_cooley
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Post by laurence_cooley » 15 May 2016 21:41

matthew wrote:I think on Sunday next week @ 915am we should all have a group hug. Then ride our bikes :roll:
I volunteer to lead a longer group hug starting at 8:15.

As Tim, I apologise if my original comment gave the impression that I was criticising Philip or Nick. That certainly wasn't my intention. I've been on many club runs organised by both of you over the years and have always enjoyed them. I stand by my suggestion that we should generally try to avoid both the A and the B run being beyond the top end of the guideline distance range on the same day (I will try to lead at least one standard-length club run in the next month to help make this happen), and that many of the current B runs could actually be badged as A runs given their average speeds.

martin mc
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Post by martin mc » 15 May 2016 22:04

I really hope no-one takes this as a criticism in any way but merely a factual observation.

Today's A run according to my strava upload was 87.5 miles at an average speed of 16.4mph with 5,700 feet of climbing.
Today's B run according to Neil O's strava upload was 82 miles at 16.6mph with 5,600 feet of climbing.

My only point here is that today's A & B runs look like very similar types of ride, no offence meant to anyone & apologies in advance if any caused.

I'm more than happy to volunteer to lead either an A or B run on 19th June, destination & start time to be confirmed, by then I suspect my distance running days will be behind me permanently.

WorcsPhil
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Post by WorcsPhil » 15 May 2016 23:13

Good grief.

I come back from a lovely day's cycling oop North to a whole host of conflicting opinions.

...and the two things I take from this are:

a. This may lead to potential and new leaders shying away from volunteering for fear of reprisals, the very thing we don't want.

b. We are a vibrant club and we will always get different and opposing opinions no matter what is done or organised. Let's live with that.

This second point is vital, you simply cannot please everybody, in fact if we please 55% of members, I go to bed happy. The only means I have in measuring happiness of club runs is number of riders (which are pretty constant this year compared to last) and complaints, which do happen from time to time, hence my 'reminder' posts

For some, the B is too long, and for others it is ok, so what I am trying to put forward is variety (which means not the same every week!). In that regard, it is interesting to note that three of the last six B runs have been 'textbook' rides within guidelines and c riders have stepped up and hopefully enjoyed it, whilst three have been longer. To me, that is fine, Leaders can volunteer what they like (within reason) and it seems that we ARE getting variety.

There are plenty of empty weeks in June for leaders to put their names down (see the separate thread on the MB), and if we can keep our regular leaders such as Philip (I'll work on him) and Nick and others intermingled with new leaders offering 'textbook' runs, that seems to me to cover all the bases.

In short, one solution..volunteer to lead a run. Ironically, reading the above posts, we may get more leaders out of this, so perhaps this was all a wily ruse by myself.

Matt Regan speaks da truth!

Colin G
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Post by Colin G » 16 May 2016 01:02

Leading a club run is gratifying. I've done a few now and the things I thought were important to lead aren't. You don't have to be the strongest rider on the day, or a master mechanic. It's simple enough to plan a route, and there's bound to be repetition with previous rides - there are only so many lanes.

Cycling etiquette is mostly common sense. Keep looking behind, wave your arms about a bit, shout some stuff, blame somebody else for recommending the cafe just in case the service is rubbish...or the carrot cake costs £6, talk nonsense to anyone who will listen, never admit you're lost.

No club run is perfect. My last B run was probably a bit quick, and some of my C runs too long maybe. But people say thank you, and that's nice.

I'm not sure about the concept of a group hug wearing lycra by the way, that's one very small step away from an orgy.

Nicks_77
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Post by Nicks_77 » 16 May 2016 07:54

Firstly a sincere apology to Keith if you felt upset by a totally innocent comment I made regarding "samey" club rides.

Keith this wasn't a dig at you personally but I appreciate it wasn't the best comment to make considering you had lead quite a number of rides at that time.

What I was trying to say in my own way was that I wanted to get some more new destinations on the list. As Colin G has already said, there are only so many lanes we can use and most will be used quite frequently.

Yesterday's ride to Madeley is I believe the first time anyone has taken a ride out that way and I hope that other potential future leaders use the route and cafe of which all on yesterdays route enjoyed, or so they told me anyway.

Phil R's comments about there being a good variety of rides for all abilities all ring true from what I can see. If any of us post up a longer club run it's usually always with an indication of distance.

To say that such organised rides are alienating members is quite frankly ludicrous as the consistent attendance numbers and regular faces I see seems to suggest otherwise.

I like Phil W feel a totally disheartened now at leading any further club runs as it seems whatever we do either isn't right or good enough.

I've said my piece on the matter now and no longer wish to be dragged into this debate unless it's how we can positively move forward to incentivise others to make a contribution to the club runs.

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AlanW
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Post by AlanW » 16 May 2016 08:17

Should some of this thread be moved to the members area?
"You only need two tools: WD40 and duct tape. If it doesn't move and it should, use WD40. If it moves and it shouldn't, use duct tape"

laurence_cooley
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Post by laurence_cooley » 16 May 2016 08:19

Nick, I think your attempt to find and use alternative destinations for club runs is great, and I hope that you continue to do that.

At the same time, I don't think we can write off as "ludicrous" the idea that some members who used to be or would like to be regulars on the B run are currently being put off, as the committee has been receiving complaints to that effect. To repeat (how many times can I emphasise this?), I am not blaming this on you. It just seems that the culture of the B run has changed such that the average distance of them is above the top end of the guidelines, and the average speed at the very top end too (which obviously means that half of the time, it is above it). Put yourself in the shoes of an aspiring B run rider, and you can see how this might be daunting. This is all covered by Si's analysis, which I encourage everyone to read when it is posted.

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VeloVert
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Post by VeloVert » 16 May 2016 09:10

I'd like to thank John for a very enjoyable C run to Leamington Spa yesterday. As only my second proper club run as a member, I found it neither too far, too fast or too hilly, so a pretty much perfectly judged step-up from the intro ride, given that I have got slightly better as I've put more miles in.

I'd also like to thank everyone else on the ride for not taking the mickey too much about my parking accident at the cafe!!! Thankfully no damage beyond a strained wrist and wounded pride.

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Post by Tim » 16 May 2016 09:31

Great stuff Jason!
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John D
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Post by John D » 16 May 2016 10:31

Jason, thanks for reminding me about the undignified dismount and sharing it with everyone else.

Without getting too involved in regard to specific posts, i think we are in danger of making a mountain out of a molehill here. Stats about average speed is a reasonable method to see trends but doesn't necessarily tell the whole story. Yesterdays c run was 14.4 on my Garmin, a little above guidelines but was an appropriate speed having regard to the abilities of everyone in the group. Last weeks b run was 16.6, again, above "guidelines" but appropriate for abilites, terrain etc. If Nicks average was above guidelines yesterday, no major problem as it was suitable for the group and i'm sure if there were any slightly less capable riders, speed would have been reduced so that the club run maintains its mantra of being a social ride.
Its really healthy to see some variety in terms of length and destination, and the last thing we should be doing is getting too mired in over analysing what is little more than a "diary clash", resulting in valuable and well regarded run leaders questioning their desire to lead in the future. Perhaps all we need to do is reinforce the longer (and it was only 14 miles) outings on the ride calendar and provide a bit more notice for an alternative "within guidelines" A, B or C runs (see Helens forthcoming Tewkesbury c run) should there be a desire.
As Colin has said, its not particularly difficult to lead and you do feel satisfied that you're putting your bit back into YOUR club. If nothing else, a timely opportunity to take a step back and ask ourselves if we are just standing on the sidelines or should we be pulling our weight more and may be volunteering to lead.



JD

laurence_cooley
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Post by laurence_cooley » 16 May 2016 10:40

I agree with that, John, but some of the complaints received have been that slower riders have been dropped on some club runs (I think I recall that last year, there was even one where the leader was dropped due to other riders pushing the pace). There is also a bit of a risk of self-selection, in that riders who opt to go on a ride are likely to be able to cope with it and be happy with the speed and distance, but there are people who have been put off going on club runs because they no longer feel suited to them (which we often only hear about when they complain to committee members).

John D
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Post by John D » 16 May 2016 11:11

laurence_cooley wrote:I agree with that, John, but some of the complaints received have been that slower riders have been dropped on some club runs (I think I recall that last year, there was even one where the leader was dropped due to other riders pushing the pace). There is also a bit of a risk of self-selection, in that riders who opt to go on a ride are likely to be able to cope with it and be happy with the speed and distance, but there are people who have been put off going on club runs because they no longer feel suited to them (which we often only hear about when they complain to committee members).
Laurence, understood and being party to any complaints gives you a far better insight of "issues" that many are not aware of. I look forward to reading Si's comments and i'm sure a healthy discussion will follow.

JD

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keith
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Post by keith » 16 May 2016 14:47

Nicks_77 wrote:Firstly a sincere apology to Keith if you felt upset by a totally innocent comment I made regarding "samey" club rides.

Keith this wasn't a dig at you personally but I appreciate it wasn't the best comment to make considering you had lead quite a number of rides at that time.


Don't sweat it it was just by way of illustration

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petemarshall
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Post by petemarshall » 16 May 2016 16:37

laurence_cooley wrote:I agree with that, John, but some of the complaints received have been that slower riders have been dropped on some club runs (I think I recall that last year, there was even one where the leader was dropped due to other riders pushing the pace). There is also a bit of a risk of self-selection, in that riders who opt to go on a ride are likely to be able to cope with it and be happy with the speed and distance, but there are people who have been put off going on club runs because they no longer feel suited to them (which we often only hear about when they complain to committee members).
These sort of mystery complaints that crop up on here can put people off leading.

Having lead many rides over the last few years no one has ever complained to me and I have heard no complaints on rides I have been on. But I have seen complaints about rides mentioned often by committee members here and discussion here every six months or so making the same points.

If there are complaints that actually relate to leaders going to fast or dropping riders then they need to be stated not just rumours or it is going to have a negative affect on all leaders, it certainly has on me which is why I have stopped leading rides.

If people have complaints make them to the ride leader not to a committee.

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Post by Tim » 16 May 2016 19:17

Pete there have hardly been any complaints, feedback is almost unanimously positive and numbers are constantly good.

So that's it. Definitely feedback to the leader should be the first option but so too is feedback to Phil worcs as Club Run Secretary or to other members of the committee if they wish for us to pass it on to him. The bits of feedback recently have only been in regards to the B ride is my understanding and primarily only in relation to a bit of one particular run whilst other feedback even about the same ride has been positive so this is totally a storm in a tea cup. That is wasting all of our time. The club run secretary wants rides to be variable but with a good nod to the guidelines over the year and the rest of the committee fully support him and we all totally appreciate the leaders without whom there would be no club. An hour volunteered is totally valued, we know how valuable it is, as we all put in days and days ourselves. This anti committee stuff isn't helpful as you'll end up with no club run secretary or other key positions empty in six months time. Let's move on, ride like Cavendish in his prime, and hug the greatest plumber Birmingham has ever seen whenever the opportunity arises.

Any further thoughts on club runs or individual members of the committee please pass to the club run sec or president or chairman.
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Post by Beacon RCC » 16 May 2016 21:31

Analysis of club runs and discussion now available at http://www.beaconrcc.org.uk/message_boa ... php?t=7719

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