Club Audax Trophy

Discussion about audaxes & cyclosportives

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Philip Whiteman
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Club Audax Trophy

Post by Philip Whiteman » 08 Sep 2021 10:33

Hello All

When the Beacon Audax Trophy was set up, the period covered for eligible rides was concurrent with the AUK season. Eagle eyed people may have noted that the AUK year reverted to 31st October again from 30th September. This means an extra month of riding to gain your distances and advantages over your nearest rival.

The motion passed at AUK was as follows,.

1.2.1 The season for trophies and awards is the 12 month period from 1 November to the following 31 October unless otherwise specified.

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George
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Re: Club Audax Trophy

Post by George » 08 Sep 2021 11:25

There are pros and cons with aligning the dates. Everything's easier to get your head around and verify if we align ourselves with AUK dates. But our trophies are handed out less than two weeks after the end of October, so it would be a headache for the person who organises engravings and it would mean having a separate claims window for this one award, while all the others are claimed a month earlier.

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Re: Club Audax Trophy

Post by Philip Whiteman » 08 Sep 2021 11:34

George wrote:
08 Sep 2021 11:25
There are pros and cons with aligning the dates. Everything's easier to get your head around and verify if we align ourselves with AUK dates. But our trophies are handed out less than two weeks after the end of October, so it would be a headache for the person who organises engravings and it would mean having a separate claims window for this one award, while all the others are claimed a month earlier.
I am just going with what was discussed when the trophy was set up. There was a change to AUK a few years ago and the club trophy followed suit, so there is precedence. Have the rules changed? if so, they need to be communicated and agreed.

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George
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Re: Club Audax Trophy

Post by George » 08 Sep 2021 23:02

I don't recall the rules changing any time recently, Phil. They're published here: http://beaconrcc.org.uk/wp-content/uplo ... s-2020.pdf
Just to be clear: I think that your idea of changing from 30 September to 31 October has a lot going for it. I'm just saying is that there are drawbacks too. Maybe it would be a good idea to put a motion to the AGM so that everyone can have their say on the pros and cons.

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Re: Club Audax Trophy

Post by Simon Woodward » 09 Sep 2021 12:31

I'm aware that Audax UK decided to change the season to align it with to the international Audaxing year.

I was wondering whether other sections have differing seasons? What about time trialling, when does their season begin?

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George
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Re: Club Audax Trophy

Post by George » 09 Sep 2021 14:54

Simon Woodward wrote:
09 Sep 2021 12:31
I'm aware that Audax UK decided to change the season to align it with to the international Audaxing year.

I was wondering whether other sections have differing seasons? What about time trialling, when does their season begin?
In time trialling, annual competitions (e.g. BBAR) have traditionally ended on 30 September, albeit with a few exceptions. I think that's a fairly traditional end date for a lot of forms of racing that are considered summer sports, and probably the reason why so many of our own competitions end on 30 September. In principle, there's no particular reason why different Beacon competitions shouldn't have different ends dates. For example, the end date for the cyclocross trophy is way back at the start of the year, because CX is a winter sport. My answer to Phil wasn't meant to suggest that I think that the Beacon's Audax season must end on 30 September. I was simply flagging up the logistical drawbacks of making it 31 October. If that's the end date, there will be a very short (and unsynchronised) window for establishing who has won, inviting them to receive their prize, etc; and it's unlikely,l I would think, that the prize winner will ever get their trophy engraved before it's awarded. None of that is earth-shattering stuff, of course. If members, particularly audaxing members, see those little niggles as a price worth paying for alignment with AUK, fair enough. I'm just pointing them out, not saying that they preclude change.

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Re: Club Audax Trophy

Post by WorcsPhil » 09 Sep 2021 17:40

All good points. My view is that if possible we should switch to November-October inclusive to be in line with the AUK calendar for the Beacon Audax trophy. I appreciate that this year (with our earlier awards night to coincide with our 75th anniversary date) this leaves little time for trophy subscribing, but it's pretty clear who the winner will be unless me or Si Woodward go bananas in the next 6 weeks! :shock:

Us audaxers like symmetry and rules, so it makes sense for Beacon to shadow the AUK season rather than be mis-aligned by a month...that would only bring the pedants amongst us out in a rash :D ....but I'm happy for this to be shouted down if others disagree.

By the way, in the Audax UK Club points competition, Beacon RCC are in 7th place out of 250 clubs nationally with 6 weeks of the season left...a fantastic effort. We have 160 points from the highest six-placed riders (where a 200kms ride provides 2 points, 300kms ride provides 3 points etc)...come on long-distance riders, help us out and get your long rides validated.... we want to be top 5 next year.

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Re: Club Audax Trophy

Post by ballintrane » 09 Sep 2021 18:55

What's a Audax?
Paul Johnson

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Simon Woodward
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Re: Club Audax Trophy

Post by Simon Woodward » 10 Sep 2021 18:04

While we're contemplating moving the dates that the Audax trophy is awarded I'd also like to highlight another potential issue.

Currently the Audax trophy is awarded to
"The member who completes the greatest mileage in audax events during the twelve-month period ending 30 September"

There's no definition of an Audax event and last Winter I was submitting short (100km) Brevet Populaire rides on my Fixed wheel to gain Fixed Wheel points. With our current rules, these count towards my overall distance and that doesn't seem right.

Can I put forward 2 suggestions

Either
1. AUK points are used which require a 200km minimum distance and the overall mileage is only used in the event of a tie.
or
2. Both AAA and AUK points are added together (This allows BP rides) to decide the outcome with the overall mileage only used in the event of a tie.

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Re: Club Audax Trophy

Post by Philip Whiteman » 10 Sep 2021 18:54

Simon Woodward wrote:
10 Sep 2021 18:04
While we're contemplating moving the dates that the Audax trophy is awarded I'd also like to highlight another potential issue.

Currently the Audax trophy is awarded to
"The member who completes the greatest mileage in audax events during the twelve-month period ending 30 September"

There's no definition of an Audax event and last Winter I was submitting short (100km) Brevet Populaire rides on my Fixed wheel to gain Fixed Wheel points. With our current rules, these count towards my overall distance and that doesn't seem right.

Can I put forward 2 suggestions

Either
1. AUK points are used which require a 200km minimum distance and the overall mileage is only used in the event of a tie.
or
2. Both AAA and AUK points are added together (This allows BP rides) to decide the outcome with the overall mileage only used in the event of a tie.
That's my fault. I wrote the original rules for the trophy and considered points rather than distance but it was suggested that this would exclude individuals riding BPs (where straight audax points are not awarded), so I recommended absolute distance. When I used to trawl the AUK records for achievements this meant not adding the actual distance of an event and not the nominal 200, 300, etc. A tie never arose but as you say, absolute distance could be used to judge the winner.

There are clearly downsides to either approach of distance but I quite understand that those riding AAA audaxes will have achieved a greater feat than somebody who rode the same distance but without altitude. The other side of the coin, is that it would exclude BPs - even though they may attract AAA points.

This was at a time when there were fewer audaxers and no-one was targeting AAA, so it possibly prescient that the qualification requirements are revisited for 21/22.

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Philip Whiteman
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Re: Club Audax Trophy

Post by Philip Whiteman » 06 Oct 2021 14:02

Drum roll, and here are the results without further a do.

First place with 54 points (approx 5,400km) https://audax.uk/results/?memId=19004&s ... sonId=2021
Second place with 46 points (approx 4,600km) https://audax.uk/results/?memId=20314&s ... sonId=2021

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