The Beacon Message Board

Here's the longer route that most of the group followed last week:

http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/weds-night-48miles

My plan this week is to ride the same route but at a gentler pace than last week, probably no faster than 16mph average this time round (we were around 17.5mph average last week).

Keith and I are riding the Castleton Classic on Sunday and I'd prefer a steady paced ride - I'm sure others may prefer to ride at whatever pace suits or turn right in Lowsonford to ride the 'regular' Weds route instead - but I thought I'd put a marker down for a steady pace and anyone who wants to can join me.

And should also have said that I'll be sticking to a 7 pm meet at The Red Lion.

Gonna be a touch windy!

There won't be the usual Wednesday ride this week as some of the guys will be riding the club TT.

I hope to be at The Red Lion at 6.15 to meet up and ride down to the course with time for a warm up before 7.00.

The plan is to do a short, easy ride after so bring some lights.

The weather seems to have returned to default setting so Bovril and warm blankets in the saddle bag might be wise.

My knee isn't so good after our Weston adventure so I'll be giving the TT a miss this week.
If anyone fancies joining me for the usual Wednesday 50 mile loop at a steady pace, meet for 7pm depart at the Red lion as ever.

Great ride tonight, guys. So much for taking it easy to help Ian and Keith's recovery from LEJOG - it ended up being the fastest Wednesday night ride I've been on to date.

Didnt know this was on last night as would have liked to have ride it.

There is a TT next week but will it be on the following week 3rd July? I have told the wife Wednesday night is riding night so I have a pass Looked quick last night, was that cos of the nice calm weather for a change?

Hi Andy, the Wednesday ride happens most weeks even during the winter. I'll try and remember to post a message to confirm. I expect they'll be guys out next Wednesday also as not everyone rides the TT.

Andy_Craddock wrote:Didnt know this was on last night as would have liked to have ride it.

Andy, details of these and all other rides are sent out in the monthly Bulletin that's e-mailed to you. In addition, weekly reminders are circulated using Twitter (@BeaconRCC) and Facebook (via the Facebook group called Beacon Roads Cycling Club). It's possible to get the reminders sent to your mobile as texts, or if you've got a smartphone you can use a Twitter or Facebook app to read them. There are sometimes interruptions to the flow of information (when I'm submerged by work), but usually it's available if you know where to look.

If you need any help tapping in to this info, or if the Bulletins aren't reaching you, please say; I'm happy to help if I can.

Updated details are now available via the following sticky threads:
http://www.beaconrcc.org.uk/message_boa ... php?t=3639
http://www.beaconrcc.org.uk/message_boa ... php?t=2881

Cheers George.

Have joined the group now

Little undecided which ride to do this week, The red Lion one will be a lot easier for me to get to than the TT looking at where the TT is.

Good to see such a large group out for another sedate and gentle spin this evening...

IanT wrote:Good to see such a large group out for another sedate and gentle spin this evening...

It was good. We really need to work on making it faster though, if you ask me.

Personally I'm fed up with these limp trundles through the lanes. Tonight's ride was so slow I could climb the stairs almost un-aided when I got home.

Maybe it was slow to stop so many coming in the future, I expected it to be a lot quicker to be honest*



*This is a complete and utter lie, and have never rode that fast over the distance, loved it though

How do you get rid of moss growing on the north side of a bike

I'm more concerned with Geordies wheelsucking all the way up the hill and then coming round to claim a 'King of the Hill' victory.......

Anyone out on the ride this eve ?

Yep, think there will be plenty

Great stuff. Hopefully a nice pace too. See you there Tim !

Not sure what that was all about. I last attended two weeks ago and only noticed we'd dropped people when we stopped for a second **flat**.

Tonight I had my arse in my hands. My concern was that I was not able to take on fluid because whenever I went for my bidon, I noticed the warning calls for potholes were not transmitting back through the group. I
I think it was an eagerness to keep in touch with the leaders. I was more concerned with staying hydrated than keeping up. Just after halfway, I set my own pace and Nick kindly joined me. When we reached Broad Lane, we came across Manuel repairing a **flat**. It was his first outing of a Wednesday and he didnt know where he was. Nick and I waited while he changed tubes. I thought that was the form for these rides, in honesty. People were kind enough to hang on for me last summer and I have tried to ensure I am equally considerate due to that example.

No matter. Since a Wednesday night A run leader appears to have volunteered, I will similarly step forward to ensure there is a B run at slightly more pedestrian 18-20 mph if necessary.

Toby, your points are very valid. The Wednesday ride has lately turned a corner from sociable fast club run to full-on training bash/ chain gang. I think there are a few factors in play. There are new riders with a racing agenda in mind, guys are probably at their fittest at this time of year, the weather is great, the competitive urge is very strong. I was actually going to suggest leading a slightly slower group as I wasn't feeling too great earlier today.

I did also notice a more 'every man for himself' atmosphere to road hazards which is similar to the Saturday morning Bcc ride where you look after yourself and ride to your own agenda if you get dropped its tough luck.

We did wait for almost 15 minutes for Manuel to catch up and rode back down the course, there was no sign. To be totally honest I was behind Manuel when he **flat**d and proceeded to come to a dead stop right in front of me with no apparent concern. I missed him by a whisker at nearly 30 mph and was a bit shaken.

If we continue to get large numbers splitting into two groups may be the way to go but as the autumn draws closer I would hope the pace will naturally drop slightly.
I'd welcome suggestions.
Personally it's a tough one. I enjoy the challenge of trying to keep pace with the stronger guys but would also like to preserve the friendly group feeling that we've always had. In the middle of winter I doubt we'll have any problems...

I too enjoy the pace of keeping up with faster riders, it has helped my overall performance ten fold, however this evening's ride was just not what I expected from a usually friendly and sociable midweek ride.

Just a thought, but it may well be advisable to make these new riders with said racing agenda's aware of the ideology of the Wednesday evening rides otherwise we will see continued repeats of this evenings events for which I am afraid I will no longer partake in.

Thanks Nic. My entire experience of group riding has involved signals and calls for road hazards, whether it be a Beacon club run, one of these rides or when I have ridden along with people from other clubs. I thought it was par for the course. I think the dire state of our roads makes such communication mandatory. It was the hottest day of the year today, apparently. I was very wary about removing/replacing bottle in cage earlier and ending up causing a pile up.

I had decided specifically not to attend the BCC ride based on what I'd heard, at least for the time being. I though the Wednesday ride offered something else. I am happy to be part of a a splinter group on Wednesday nights but perhaps not every week, since as you say, sometimes its good to challenge yourself and keep up with the faster guys.

From the segments I see on strava this seems (in bursts at least) to have been very fast by usual wednesday standards. I have enjoyed doing these rides for about a year now & have usually found the pace gets controlled by shouts from the back that riders are struggling or of mechanical problems. Even when there are injections of pace that split the group up when a junction is reached riders usually check that everyone is still together. I for one would like to see this togetherness & communication persevere - even if that's at the expense of sacrificing outright speed.
It's perhaps no suprise that when people are working very hard to keep up general communication suffers. If numbers suffice in future maybe a flat out training group could press on with a more sedate paced group following behind (a bit like a broom wagon). This could probably be organised at start of ride when participants arrive, there's usually no shortage of riders knowing the route. I really hope no-one is put off doing these rides because of tonights experience.

'shouts from the back', yep, I don't think this was happening much/at all which then means people at front plough on, but yes also the guys pushing at front need to think/check at junctions that everyone is back on.

Toby/Nick your average speeds were same as mine so I don't think a and b pace is needed just touch better communication all round and checking all together at few points along route.

Would be useful to decide who (if anyone) is doing 50 mile route at start so people can pace themselves/eat/drink accordingly.

I am fairly new to this, started in Feb, and can say it has been totally friendly/supportive etc in previous weeks, with excellent pointing/shouting of hazards unlike BCC ride which I also sometimes do. Maybe the heat and too much Tour viewing was to blame.

I understand entirely the sentiments expressed here. As someone who was up the front for much of the session, I was aware that communication was at times strained when the pace was increased. Perhaps we could make a concerted effort to used vocal as well as hand gestures to notify others of hazzards etc. I can honestly say that i did not hear any calls re **flat**s or people off the back and i do recall going over junctions and the question being asked as to whether we were all on. I don't possess an elitist attitude to riding that prevents me from stopping when others are in difficulty and would certainly hope that others would stop to assist me, i had a mechanical last Saturday morning on the early morning ride and no bugger waited but I'm aware that the attitude of that training group is more Darwinian! I certainly wouldn't want our club rides to resemble that as it would just foster animosity and it would put people off turning up. I did put something up on fb last night to assure a couple of the guys that a group of us did stop for about ten mins and someone did go back to see if Manuel be found. Perhaps a little more consideration is needed by those of us up front. Sorry once again to Toby, Nick and Manuel.

Not being there last night, I don't really want to stick my oar in to something I didn't experience, but just to say that I think it would be a shame to split the ride into two groups. I've really enjoyed the Wednesday ride getting faster, even when that means I've been hanging on for dear life, and it's been good training. It's easy for someone who knows the route to say, but I think I'd prefer to be stretched and dropped now and then than to ride with a slower group, be in my comfort zone and not get any faster as a result.

Having just read this thread, readers may interested in the following thread about communications on official club runs.

http://www.beaconrcc.org.uk/message_boa ... php?t=4317

On reflection, Laurence, last night I offered to "lead" a slower ride to make a point in the heat of the moment. You're quite right. I know the route and last night I chose to drop off because I was not comfortable with;

-the lack of communication when the pace picked up
-feeling like someone had decided to do interval training and not told anybody else

Tim said that Nick and my average speed was the same as the main group. I did feel a definite "speed up/slow down/speed up/slow down" when I was with the main group whereas Nic and I were trying to maintain an average speed without those spikes.

I would welcome interval training into my routine. I am always looking to learn and progress and develop. But maybe that should be for another night.

As one of the riders pushing the pace i rightly or wrongly consider myself partly responsible for the speed of the ride. I assumed the Wednesday rides were faster paced sessions.... I personally would like to attend a quality hard group ride in the week. Having said that I'm not willing to sacrifice riders getting dropped for the sake of an eyeballs out session, but I've already made my feelings on that issue clear... Had i heard that people were dropped/in difficulty i would gladly wait.
I mentioned a couple of points to nick about the Wednesday rides on Tuesday when he was doing some work on my bike.
* The rides were imho a potentially excellent opportunity to establish a good quality chaingang session.
* But, i felt that they could have benefited from a little more structure so people knew that certain points we would be working harder, eg on longer straight stretches but conversely there is collective awareness that there will be steadier sections to enable any regrouping/recovery.
HOWEVER...these are only my perspectives and something which is of collective appeal is the key.
i certainly didn't do anything differently last night to how i approached my first outing on this ride last wed... I picked up the speed when it was safe to do so, maintained it and then let someone else take over.
Lets have some healthy debate so we can find something that works for all who want to be there.

As a very occasional participant of this ride, I'd like to offer my opinion (aka stick my ore in)

The ride either needs to be a quality training ride or a fast bike ride. It can't be both. Anyone using it as a training ride for racing is wasting their time, in my opinion. Those who are looking to improve there general condition and speed up a bit, then this is ideal.

If the group decides this is a fast bike ride, then clear ground rules need to be established and adhered to.

For those wanting to do some specific quality training for racing then maybe an alternative session could be established.

Mike I am 100% with you on your views.

I personally am not looking to race anytime soon and purely use the Weds night ride as an opportunity to do a short, sharp and fast paced run that would not be suitable for a Sunday Club ride, but will improve my overall fitness.

In addition its a good opportunity to meet up with fellow club members and others to be sociable.

I have since starting doing the Weds night rides back in the depths of winter thoroughly enjoyed them, however I have to be honest last night left me feeling a little dissapointed that the overall camaraderie had been lost in favour of a full on racing situation where its every man for himself.

Hopefully things will sort themselves out and I certainly don't want any animosity within an otherwise decent & friendly group of people.

As Mike has pointed out, it may be prudent for people requiring specific race training to organise something seperate or at least establish the ground rules before a Weds night ride commences.

Without being on the ride last night I don't want to say too much.

I have done this ride only twice and both were very fast (faster than I expected) however was a good way to push myself. From what I gather the only real section where people do go in race mode is the last stretch of Earswood on the way back, and a Team TT effect almost happens.

I think this is fine as long as people are aware, the first week I lost out as didn't realise but the second week I stayed on. The other "faster" stretches seemed to be just after the summit of Gay Hill towards Wilmore Lane and also also Norton Lane all the way until Stratford road through Cut Throat Lane. On these sections if you get caught between groups it is very hard to bridge the gap. If everyone was aware these were the quick bits then it may work a bit better.

I know there are other sections probably later on, however these in particular are long fast stretches of road with few turns, junctions.

I will be there next week though

Mike, i agree, the session cannot be a fast ride and used as a race prep training session. The distance is too far and the session is not specific enough. There is no reason why a faster paced ride cannot be on the cards after a reasonable warm up period.

Some good points here. Sure next week people will be more vocal and aware so we all stay together whilst keeping it brisk.

Personally would disagree though that this ride can't be used as race prep and is a waste of time. It's the only ride I've done over 7.3miles this year (apart from 2 BCC 25mile fast runs) and I've managed LMTT, 3 road races and 5 circuit races. OK I've not won any but I have used this ride to give me enough fitness to go and race for an hour and I've really enjoyed them and not been completely out of my depth.

A fast bike ride of 35-50miles is still training even if timed intervals and power meters aren't involved. Some extra miles and race specific training of course would be advisable to improve performance like the Tuesday night reservoir session and upcoming session with Greg.

Who's doing 50 next week?

A few of us are planning to do the 50 mile route this evening.

Ill bring my lights just in case

Well the lights werent needed!

I waited for a friend who was going to come, and thought we could catch you up, only for my chain to come off on gay hill to stop us having any chance.

Rode with 3 others the shorter route, glad I did as I think I would have bonked bad doing the 50, got the shakes bad when got home, not good!

Andy_Craddock wrote:Well the lights werent needed!

I waited for a friend who was going to come, and thought we could catch you up, only for my chain to come off on gay hill to stop us having any chance.

Rode with 3 others the shorter route, glad I did as I think I would have bonked bad doing the 50, got the shakes bad when got home, not good!

My legs aren't over the Rapha Rising challenge either. Despite two days off the bike, they felt terrible in tonight's time trial.

laurence_cooley wrote:

Andy_Craddock wrote:Well the lights werent needed!

I waited for a friend who was going to come, and thought we could catch you up, only for my chain to come off on gay hill to stop us having any chance.

Rode with 3 others the shorter route, glad I did as I think I would have bonked bad doing the 50, got the shakes bad when got home, not good!

My legs aren't over the Rapha Rising challenge either. Despite two days off the bike, they felt terrible in tonight's time trial.

Glad its not just me then. Felt awful tonight in places, im gona have thursday and friday off aswell, think I need it!

Unlucky Andy.

Great ride tonight, enjoyed the 50 route as felt OK all the way round for once!

Fun Fun Fun !
Either the Garmin's broke or we did the 50 miles at 19.8

Keith, I'm sorry to tell you your Garmin is faulty it was actually 19.9 !

I really nice ride, in a long and painful way, thanks everyone for the company.

19.8 on mine!

Wow sounds quick. Id like to give it a go before it starts getting too dark so i can get used to the route. Already looking at winter bike to ride it throughout the winter

Tim I wasn't suggesting the ride is a waste of time, merely that those still doing it in the middle of racing season and hoping it will help them in a Sunday race might be wasting there time. This ride is good training pre season and during breaks from blocks of racing, which is when you'll find me on it.[/quote]

Avg speed on last nights short route was 20.5
we had an excellent section of through and off in the usual spot...really nice and smooth, then again there was only a small group of us. Welcome to a couple of new faces too. Guy and James.

Mike, yep agreed, suppose I just made the point because I sense (maybe wrongly) that people get put off trying any races as they think it would be too tough when I reckon anyone who can do this ride or similar would be able to take the step into racing (if they wanted to).

Question, prob should be in training section, but for people who race cat2/3 like you, Lee & Sean. How much turbo and/rollers work do you do? and when/how much during year? I don't have either bit of kit as yet. I just wondered if there are any cat1-2s who solely train on road.

Tim
yep anyone able get round the wed route should give racing ago if they want. I'd prob suggest those short Concorde races to start with or BCC to a really good crit late April each year which is 4th cat only.

As far as turbos and rollers go, i don't use either. I own rollers but use them more for just quick spinning to warm up/down or for a recovery spin if i cant get out on the road.

Winter will involve long tempo rides about 17mph avg. Once we get to Feb I'll start doing the sat morning ride pretty much every week. I'll do an interval session in the week too and a big gear hill session. April and may will be sat ride, intervals and the occasional wed night ride. 1st race is end April to test the legs then we are into the season. Not too much racing in May but then a race most weekends from June to end Sept.

From June this is when rides like the wed night become detrimental as it is too long and only serves to ensure you arrive at the line on Sunday less fresh.

What I've found beneficial between races is to spin out to the K36 and to a couple of hard laps and then spin back. So about 20 mins hard work.

Having said all that we are all different and respond differently to training. At my age (40) I've benefitted more from proper recovery rather than simply doing more miles.

To the people who want to race or have an ambition of racing,

Just read this forum, and tim is right, but mikes training plan(sought of, not really a plan) is extremely beneficial, before my knee injury last year, I couldn't even do an A run, my ambition of road racing seemed so far away! after my knee injury which was 4 and a half months of getting my knee better, my cycling fitness was then reduced to a thin crisp and everything from just about doing an A run was taken away from me! My hope of being a top road racer was gone! So I started a training program, this was recommended to me numerous times by gary mac during November December 2012, recovery followed which was after a long and boring 4 and a half months which lead me to the end of March 2013...

...4 months later we are now coming to the end of July, I can now ride 70 miles avg 17 mph, I ve just started the high intensity stuff in the book, so that should get my speed up, did the bcc ride only recently got shot straight out the back, not to worry yet because im still a tractor and I will spend the next part installing the v8 engine! but out of the 3 guys who got dropped, I beat them on all the climbs! Ooorah Road racing next year(hopefully)

Training through a plan, rather than here and there cycling, will make everything seem a lot more 'easier' because you will know when you will be able to race! theoretically, providing you've followed the plan from day 1!
Also a plan is built for you, if you train heart rate like me! No pressure from other people as well, everything can be done at your own pace, just do everything what the book says,

Training plans rock in my opinion!
Just keep focussed and it will pay off!
If anyone does decide to follow one, you will be worshipping it, and it will become your bible