New Club Record

Discussion about and results of Beacon club time trials and Beacon member participation in open time trials

Moderators: Beacon RCC, David Cole, JessRJ, martin mc

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Simon Dighton
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New Club Record

Post by Simon Dighton » 07 May 2018 16:56

Took part in the VET's Nat'l 10 today in a v competitive field down in Aylesbury. Think just outside top 30 on handicap and probably a bit higher on straight times even though field is V40 and above - some of those V60's and V70's are very quick! Entries were oversubscribed and restricted to 150.

Managed to come in at 20-55 which is club VET record on the F11/10 from the prev record of 21-33. (can't find the club records on our new website - be great if someone could point out where they are or we could add them on please - new site looks superb, many congrats to all involved)

Best
Simon (Dighton)

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CakeStop
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Re: New Club Record

Post by CakeStop » 07 May 2018 18:44

Well done Si. I've amended the old site page so it's up to date when it's added to the new site.

http://www.beaconrcc.org.uk/old_site/re ... erans.html
Eat cake before you're hungry

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Philip Whiteman
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Re: New Club Record

Post by Philip Whiteman » 07 May 2018 19:29

Sounds like a celebratory drink is required :)
Beacon Audaxes The Kidderminster Killer & From Clee to Heaven 20.7.19; Autumn South Salopian 5.10.19. www.beaconrcc.org.uk/

laurence_cooley
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Re: New Club Record

Post by laurence_cooley » 07 May 2018 19:47

Well done, Simon. About the website, I mentioned to Steve and Robin a few weeks ago that I would have a go at trying to create a page for the club records but it slipped off my radar, so I'll try to do that soon.

Yosser
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Re: New Club Record

Post by Yosser » 07 May 2018 20:26

Now that is seriously fast. Superb Simon.

IanT
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Re: New Club Record

Post by IanT » 07 May 2018 20:42

Great work Simon, impressive stuff!

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keith
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Re: New Club Record

Post by keith » 08 May 2018 00:06

Brilliant Simon well done

David Cole
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Re: New Club Record

Post by David Cole » 08 May 2018 16:27

Well done Simon. Exellent time
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martin mc
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Re: New Club Record

Post by martin mc » 08 May 2018 22:33

Well done Simon

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George
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Re: New Club Record

Post by George » 16 May 2018 10:39

Congratulations, Simon!

laurence_cooley
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Re: New Club Record

Post by laurence_cooley » 27 May 2018 19:28

I've now created a page for the club records: http://beaconrcc.org.uk/about/time-trial-club-records/. Sorry that it took a while, but my initial attempt to just copy and paste everything from the old category pages didn't work very well, so I had to re-do most of it from scratch. Any problems, let me know.

JessRJ
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Re: New Club Record

Post by JessRJ » 27 May 2018 19:46

Thanks Laurence :) could you please put my 100mile record on there as well when you have a minute - 3.59.27 in this event: https://www.cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/race-results/15834

Thanks!

laurence_cooley
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Re: New Club Record

Post by laurence_cooley » 27 May 2018 20:02

JessRJ wrote:
27 May 2018 19:46
Thanks Laurence :) could you please put my 100mile record on there as well when you have a minute - 3.59.27 in this event: https://www.cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/race-results/15834

Thanks!
Done!

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George
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Re: New Club Record

Post by George » 27 May 2018 21:21

Thanks for doing that, Laurence. One very minor observation:

"Ruth Eyles 12/07/2009 RTTC Championship 4:04:01" appears both under Senior (18-39) Women and under Veteran (40+) Women. I don't know how old Ruth was when she did that fantastic ride, but it has to be in one category or the other, surely? Given that she's credited with a vets' 10-mile record the month before, I assume that she was a vet when she did the 100.

laurence_cooley
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Re: New Club Record

Post by laurence_cooley » 27 May 2018 21:28

George wrote:
27 May 2018 21:21
"Ruth Eyles 12/07/2009 RTTC Championship 4:04:01" appears both under Senior (18-39) Women and under Veteran (40+) Women. I don't know how old Ruth was when she did that fantastic ride, but it has to be in one category or the other, surely? Given that she's credited with a vets' 10-mile record the month before, I assume that she was a vet when she did the 100.
Thanks for spotting that, George - I hadn't noticed. That ride was listed under both categories on the old site. I wonder if it's because we've previously judged that if someone breaks a vets records with a time faster than the equivalent senior record, it counts for both (i.e. the seniors is actually 18+ rather than 18-39). Is that how it should be? I'm not sure.

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George
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Re: New Club Record

Post by George » 28 May 2018 11:31

Yes, I suspected that the duplication predated your conversion of the data, Laurence. And I suspect that you are right with your explanation: until a few years ago, we had a rather confused interpretation of a 'senior' record. We called them 'senior' records, but they were in fact over-18s records. So, for example, there was a time when Steve Jones' junior 10-mile record was faster than the senior 10-mile record, but he was never listed as the senior record-holder. Yet one or more of Wally Lowe's vets' records were regarded as senior records as well. Everything was made more logical something like five or ten years ago. Ironically, I seem to recall that Ruth was one of the people who pointed out how illogical the old approach was as asked for it to be changed. Almost certainly, Ruth's 100-mile record was simply overlooked when the tidying up was done.

In some ways, I think it would be interesting to have a list of absolute records as well, because there have been various times when a junior, a woman or a vet has been faster than the fastest senior man at the club at one or more distances (Steve Jones, June Pitchford, Rod Goodfellow, Wally Lowe and Ruth Eyles and maybe now Jess and Simon all come under that heading, I think [without checking]). The exceptional nature of those people's performances doesn't stand out with the current strict categorisation of records. I've also sometimes wondered why we work exclusively on the basis of absolute times where vets' records are concerned, rather than use 'standard' times or age bands. For example, Simon is now in his mid-50s and breaking records set by people who were only just turned 40. It would be nice to recognise that in some way. However, I recognise that we have to draw the line somewhere... recording and classifying would become a full-time job otherwise, and the categories so specific that there would be almost no one in many of them.

Simon Dighton
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Re: New Club Record

Post by Simon Dighton » 10 Jun 2018 08:22

I think it would be good to see V50, V60, V70, V80 records as well and it would also be relatively easy to set up records based on the Vet's standard times which give a target time for each year of age - one simply sees how much one is ahead of target and the best '+' is the record holder. This is how the VET's national championships are run and the handicaps are easily available of the website. I wouldn't mind checking any time that was sent through to me to calculate - think Dave Hughes' 50 from the other year would be a strong contender. It is also a good way of highlighting the VET's and the VTTA and keeping something to aim for when the legs don't go as fast as a 20 year old.

Yosser
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Re: New Club Record

Post by Yosser » 10 Jun 2018 12:18

This is an area of some complexity. Most of the club awards are for “absolutes” awarded in gender & BC cats, some Male/Female and then Schoolboy, Junior, Senior, Vet and so on. What is missing is the absolute O/A which would NOT necessarily be the “Senior” award. This could be a simple “Beacon Champion of X” trophy. The Senior award would become the “Men’s Senior” award.
The Vets BAR is more nuanced. Vets racing has ballooned out of all recognition from the early years when the Vets BAR was born. It really should be some sort of handicap type system and the VTTA method is the obvious format.

Out of all the club trophies, the RR one is intriguing. It is essentially, and has always been, a handicap award without being explicitly so. It counts contributory points on an ability based race system. This means that Elite cat races are classed alongside D cat races and vets age cats. This means that Steve Jones getting placed in the Tour of Britain in the seventies was trumped by me winning a 3rd cat Fish and Chipper around Redditch. It currently gives all abilities something to aim for but is it fair on the current crop of rapid racers to be beaten to the award by a geriatric with a paunch and 70’s style moustache?
Same decision then, two trophies? Then there is the track racing. This is a straight shoot out at the club track champs but then what about age related awards. Where would my last years 4 National titles at the LVRC and BC national champs have placed me in the club archives? Special awards aside, we can’t just multiply all the trophies, or can we?

One possible way forward for some awards is;
1 Club Champion at designated events (outright Fastest / winner) NON H/C
2 Age / Gender Champion at designated events (Sch, Jun, Sen, for M/F) NON H/C
3 Vet at designated events (40 +…) HC

This really addresses the TT awards. However that still leaves some of the other type awards with questions hanging, but hey, this is Just a friendly cycling club after all. Let’s not get too hung up about it all.
But that ride by Simon …, wow!

laurence_cooley
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Re: New Club Record

Post by laurence_cooley » 11 Jun 2018 07:47

I've removed the duplicate entry of Ruth's record, leaving the vets one in place. If anyone wants to construct overall and/or more differentiated vets record tables, I'd be happy to add them.

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