Hard and Fast - Crit/RR/Track Training Ride
Moderators: laurence_cooley, JessRJ, AdeR, Pedlo Mudguardo, StuartWhite, gmac, Tim
- StuartWhite
- Posts: 274
- Joined: 03 Oct 2013 23:57
- Real Name:
Hard and Fast - Crit/RR/Track Training Ride
Hi All,
I will open this up on Facebook in due course, but thought I'd get the interest of the Beacon massive first.
Ade mentioned recently about some on road close proximity riding in prep for the new year, so let's get on it.
I suggest we start with a small circuit (I already have one in mind for the first week) but I'd be happy to alternate this each week based on peoples idea's. We'll specifically be working on through and off along a decent stretch with a corner involved to get some 2 up negotiation involved.
We'll then gently spin the remainder of the loop to allow anybody off the back to catch up then repeat.
This isn't a long loop so will provide plenty of efforts so can also count in as an interval session, hell, maybe we'll even have a sprint on the last run
The Star City sprint loops will start up in January so it'd be good if we could get a couple of these in before then.
Tuesday's is Hills night
Wednesday is Red Lion night
and we all got stuff to do over the weekend so Monday or Thursday?
(preferably Thursday).
I will open this up on Facebook in due course, but thought I'd get the interest of the Beacon massive first.
Ade mentioned recently about some on road close proximity riding in prep for the new year, so let's get on it.
I suggest we start with a small circuit (I already have one in mind for the first week) but I'd be happy to alternate this each week based on peoples idea's. We'll specifically be working on through and off along a decent stretch with a corner involved to get some 2 up negotiation involved.
We'll then gently spin the remainder of the loop to allow anybody off the back to catch up then repeat.
This isn't a long loop so will provide plenty of efforts so can also count in as an interval session, hell, maybe we'll even have a sprint on the last run
The Star City sprint loops will start up in January so it'd be good if we could get a couple of these in before then.
Tuesday's is Hills night
Wednesday is Red Lion night
and we all got stuff to do over the weekend so Monday or Thursday?
(preferably Thursday).
Cheers,
Stu
It never gets easier, you just go faster.
Strava - http://www.strava.com/athletes/white_stuart
Facebook - Barry Fight - www.facebook.com/barry.fight
Email - Stulottie@gmail.com
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Stu
It never gets easier, you just go faster.
Strava - http://www.strava.com/athletes/white_stuart
Facebook - Barry Fight - www.facebook.com/barry.fight
Email - Stulottie@gmail.com
Text/Whatsapp - 07929 612359
- StuartWhite
- Posts: 274
- Joined: 03 Oct 2013 23:57
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Mondays are rest day for me also so I'd prefer Thursdays
Cheers,
Stu
It never gets easier, you just go faster.
Strava - http://www.strava.com/athletes/white_stuart
Facebook - Barry Fight - www.facebook.com/barry.fight
Email - Stulottie@gmail.com
Text/Whatsapp - 07929 612359
Stu
It never gets easier, you just go faster.
Strava - http://www.strava.com/athletes/white_stuart
Facebook - Barry Fight - www.facebook.com/barry.fight
Email - Stulottie@gmail.com
Text/Whatsapp - 07929 612359
-
- Posts: 1120
- Joined: 31 Dec 2011 13:48
- Real Name:
- Location: Harborne
I'd like to keep Monday as a rest day too. Thursdays are my other rest day at the moment, but that's only really because I had commitments that kept me at work late this past term, but I won't have those commitments from now on. Thursday would also allow a rest or easy day on Friday ahead of Saturday morning's Sette ride.
Thursday best for me
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Thursdays are good for me.... can we pick somewhere with plenty of roadsigns
I always used to do the star city loops and they were perfect training for racing and bunch sprints.... a confidence I've lost in recent years. My only gripe with them is the traffic near the start around spitfire island and the lack of awareness of some of the riders near the start
I always used to do the star city loops and they were perfect training for racing and bunch sprints.... a confidence I've lost in recent years. My only gripe with them is the traffic near the start around spitfire island and the lack of awareness of some of the riders near the start
Only ever done star city once, wasn't 100% happy with safety of both ride there and route and jumping of lights by riders but only done once several years ago. My experience wasn't helped by a minor mechanical on first lap!
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- StuartWhite
- Posts: 274
- Joined: 03 Oct 2013 23:57
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I was thinking 2 weeks of this then when Star City starts up we can give that a whirl.
Let's start next Thursday for 2 weeks - meet at the bottom of Hopwood at the bus stop on the left before the roundabout (if you're headed out of town) just past the petrol station, at 7pm.
Route Below (this is a counter-clockwise route as per track, and most UK crit and road races).
https://www.strava.com/routes/2862559
We'll start with this loop as a tester, but happy to change it up the following week if anybody has another similar loop in mind.
The loop is about 5 miles long so will allow us a long effort with a recovery, so we're under strain whilst working together. If anybody loses contact on the longer straight we have a good recovery section to get back together.
The idea isn't to drop people, but getting us working together to achieve a high yet sustainable speed.
As we come out of Alvechurch we'll begin to pick up the pace headed towards the bypass, approaching the roundabout with the intention of stopping (should we need to give way) we'll put a progressive effort in along the length of the bypass, we'll then regroup on the other side of the roundabout before turning left and heading back down to Alvechurch.
On the last loop (and possibly a few before if we manage to get organised) the bridge can be the finish line for a closing sprint at the end of bypass.
Sprint rules:
- We're already likely to be taking up a lane of the bypass, under no circumstances are you to cross the white line and use the outside lane - clear or not. This will also be good practice for road racing proper next year.
- If you're going to contest the sprint, you'll be expected to come through on every rotation of the through and off, not hiding to preserve your power for the 'win'. It's a training ride after all, make it hard for yourself.
All good?
Let's start next Thursday for 2 weeks - meet at the bottom of Hopwood at the bus stop on the left before the roundabout (if you're headed out of town) just past the petrol station, at 7pm.
Route Below (this is a counter-clockwise route as per track, and most UK crit and road races).
https://www.strava.com/routes/2862559
We'll start with this loop as a tester, but happy to change it up the following week if anybody has another similar loop in mind.
The loop is about 5 miles long so will allow us a long effort with a recovery, so we're under strain whilst working together. If anybody loses contact on the longer straight we have a good recovery section to get back together.
The idea isn't to drop people, but getting us working together to achieve a high yet sustainable speed.
As we come out of Alvechurch we'll begin to pick up the pace headed towards the bypass, approaching the roundabout with the intention of stopping (should we need to give way) we'll put a progressive effort in along the length of the bypass, we'll then regroup on the other side of the roundabout before turning left and heading back down to Alvechurch.
On the last loop (and possibly a few before if we manage to get organised) the bridge can be the finish line for a closing sprint at the end of bypass.
Sprint rules:
- We're already likely to be taking up a lane of the bypass, under no circumstances are you to cross the white line and use the outside lane - clear or not. This will also be good practice for road racing proper next year.
- If you're going to contest the sprint, you'll be expected to come through on every rotation of the through and off, not hiding to preserve your power for the 'win'. It's a training ride after all, make it hard for yourself.
All good?
Cheers,
Stu
It never gets easier, you just go faster.
Strava - http://www.strava.com/athletes/white_stuart
Facebook - Barry Fight - www.facebook.com/barry.fight
Email - Stulottie@gmail.com
Text/Whatsapp - 07929 612359
Stu
It never gets easier, you just go faster.
Strava - http://www.strava.com/athletes/white_stuart
Facebook - Barry Fight - www.facebook.com/barry.fight
Email - Stulottie@gmail.com
Text/Whatsapp - 07929 612359
- petemarshall
- Posts: 663
- Joined: 17 Jan 2014 16:40
- Real Name: Pete Marshall
- Location: Stourbridge
Stuart, a key coaching point from the Stourport sessions that covered nearly every rider and is something you may want to address on these rides was poor cornering particularly when doing through and off.
Majority of riders were breaking too late and too hard, scrubbing large amounts of speed off right into the corners and then having to accelerate hard out of them. On tight bends the compression effects of this on any groups made the situation even worse back in the group. Whilst this may be a useful tactic if you are at the front and want to tire others it's not good when working together.
Scrubbing speed earlier then pushing round the corner unless it's to tight to pedal can work better.
As I am sure you already know crits are won or more usually lost by a riders ability to hold speed into tight bends, whenever you get a chance to practice this go for it, but do keep it safe😁
Majority of riders were breaking too late and too hard, scrubbing large amounts of speed off right into the corners and then having to accelerate hard out of them. On tight bends the compression effects of this on any groups made the situation even worse back in the group. Whilst this may be a useful tactic if you are at the front and want to tire others it's not good when working together.
Scrubbing speed earlier then pushing round the corner unless it's to tight to pedal can work better.
As I am sure you already know crits are won or more usually lost by a riders ability to hold speed into tight bends, whenever you get a chance to practice this go for it, but do keep it safe😁
- petemarshall
- Posts: 663
- Joined: 17 Jan 2014 16:40
- Real Name: Pete Marshall
- Location: Stourbridge
- StuartWhite
- Posts: 274
- Joined: 03 Oct 2013 23:57
- Real Name:
Bus stop just down from Hopwood House pub.
adj Ash Lane post code is B48 7TP
https://goo.gl/maps/sZXrd7N8gyG2
adj Ash Lane post code is B48 7TP
https://goo.gl/maps/sZXrd7N8gyG2
Cheers,
Stu
It never gets easier, you just go faster.
Strava - http://www.strava.com/athletes/white_stuart
Facebook - Barry Fight - www.facebook.com/barry.fight
Email - Stulottie@gmail.com
Text/Whatsapp - 07929 612359
Stu
It never gets easier, you just go faster.
Strava - http://www.strava.com/athletes/white_stuart
Facebook - Barry Fight - www.facebook.com/barry.fight
Email - Stulottie@gmail.com
Text/Whatsapp - 07929 612359
Looks great but I can't do next two Thursdays. Enjoy!
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Thoughts
1. Oooh that looks good, any other very old people up for that?
2. Do my turn on the front? I didn’t get where I am today by doing my turn on the front!
3. All these corners can be taken at high speed but all these junctions need to be approached with caution.
4. Proper crit technique and tactics means you go into corner and brake as late as poss, thus causing max disruption to the fellows behind in terms of losing corner speed, as Pete has stated. No need for that in training but in a race be aware of it. First rule of Crit racing, taught me by my Uncle Tone in 1968, get on the front at the start line, then just stay there. Guess where this simple plan breaks down.
1. Oooh that looks good, any other very old people up for that?
2. Do my turn on the front? I didn’t get where I am today by doing my turn on the front!
3. All these corners can be taken at high speed but all these junctions need to be approached with caution.
4. Proper crit technique and tactics means you go into corner and brake as late as poss, thus causing max disruption to the fellows behind in terms of losing corner speed, as Pete has stated. No need for that in training but in a race be aware of it. First rule of Crit racing, taught me by my Uncle Tone in 1968, get on the front at the start line, then just stay there. Guess where this simple plan breaks down.
- StuartWhite
- Posts: 274
- Joined: 03 Oct 2013 23:57
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Just a quick one on corners as I notice this has been mentioned a couple of times above.
Cornering is one of, if not the most important skill of crit racing, but this circuit is on an open road with all major corners being a potential give way.
Intensive and tschnical corner training, whilst practising proper lines, bike lean threshold, braking etc is best saved for off road circuits such as Tudor Grange or Stourport.
That said, if we struggled to get on either of those for whatever reason, if Pete's up for it in the new year we could set up a corner specific session on a car park or playground somewhere - banish those bike leaning demons. Let's not get carried away with that right now though.
Through and off Thursday, so far I count;
Myself
Gavin
Dan
Ian
Dave
Laurence
John
and.....
Nice session to get some turkey credits in before the weekend y'know.
Cornering is one of, if not the most important skill of crit racing, but this circuit is on an open road with all major corners being a potential give way.
Intensive and tschnical corner training, whilst practising proper lines, bike lean threshold, braking etc is best saved for off road circuits such as Tudor Grange or Stourport.
That said, if we struggled to get on either of those for whatever reason, if Pete's up for it in the new year we could set up a corner specific session on a car park or playground somewhere - banish those bike leaning demons. Let's not get carried away with that right now though.
Through and off Thursday, so far I count;
Myself
Gavin
Dan
Ian
Dave
Laurence
John
and.....
Nice session to get some turkey credits in before the weekend y'know.
Cheers,
Stu
It never gets easier, you just go faster.
Strava - http://www.strava.com/athletes/white_stuart
Facebook - Barry Fight - www.facebook.com/barry.fight
Email - Stulottie@gmail.com
Text/Whatsapp - 07929 612359
Stu
It never gets easier, you just go faster.
Strava - http://www.strava.com/athletes/white_stuart
Facebook - Barry Fight - www.facebook.com/barry.fight
Email - Stulottie@gmail.com
Text/Whatsapp - 07929 612359
- StuartWhite
- Posts: 274
- Joined: 03 Oct 2013 23:57
- Real Name:
It doesn't look like it's going to warm up much today so I'll only be there tonight if we have a reasonable amount of interest.
Merry Chrimbo
Merry Chrimbo
Cheers,
Stu
It never gets easier, you just go faster.
Strava - http://www.strava.com/athletes/white_stuart
Facebook - Barry Fight - www.facebook.com/barry.fight
Email - Stulottie@gmail.com
Text/Whatsapp - 07929 612359
Stu
It never gets easier, you just go faster.
Strava - http://www.strava.com/athletes/white_stuart
Facebook - Barry Fight - www.facebook.com/barry.fight
Email - Stulottie@gmail.com
Text/Whatsapp - 07929 612359
-
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- Real Name:
- Location: Harborne
- StuartWhite
- Posts: 274
- Joined: 03 Oct 2013 23:57
- Real Name:
That's cool, we'll put it on the back burner for this week
Cheers,
Stu
It never gets easier, you just go faster.
Strava - http://www.strava.com/athletes/white_stuart
Facebook - Barry Fight - www.facebook.com/barry.fight
Email - Stulottie@gmail.com
Text/Whatsapp - 07929 612359
Stu
It never gets easier, you just go faster.
Strava - http://www.strava.com/athletes/white_stuart
Facebook - Barry Fight - www.facebook.com/barry.fight
Email - Stulottie@gmail.com
Text/Whatsapp - 07929 612359
- StuartWhite
- Posts: 274
- Joined: 03 Oct 2013 23:57
- Real Name:
Hey,
With what I'd consider to be 'a lucky escape' last week, then a few riders taking a spill yesterday, I'm inclined to agree that we should hold off again this week.
No point training for racing if you end up too injured to actually race.
The Star City Loops will start up again soon so we'll see if it's necessary to run both sessions then.
With what I'd consider to be 'a lucky escape' last week, then a few riders taking a spill yesterday, I'm inclined to agree that we should hold off again this week.
No point training for racing if you end up too injured to actually race.
The Star City Loops will start up again soon so we'll see if it's necessary to run both sessions then.
Cheers,
Stu
It never gets easier, you just go faster.
Strava - http://www.strava.com/athletes/white_stuart
Facebook - Barry Fight - www.facebook.com/barry.fight
Email - Stulottie@gmail.com
Text/Whatsapp - 07929 612359
Stu
It never gets easier, you just go faster.
Strava - http://www.strava.com/athletes/white_stuart
Facebook - Barry Fight - www.facebook.com/barry.fight
Email - Stulottie@gmail.com
Text/Whatsapp - 07929 612359
- StuartWhite
- Posts: 274
- Joined: 03 Oct 2013 23:57
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Hi Dan,
This is the segment, usually has a couple of sprints:
https://www.strava.com/segments/11321999
This is the segment, usually has a couple of sprints:
https://www.strava.com/segments/11321999
Cheers,
Stu
It never gets easier, you just go faster.
Strava - http://www.strava.com/athletes/white_stuart
Facebook - Barry Fight - www.facebook.com/barry.fight
Email - Stulottie@gmail.com
Text/Whatsapp - 07929 612359
Stu
It never gets easier, you just go faster.
Strava - http://www.strava.com/athletes/white_stuart
Facebook - Barry Fight - www.facebook.com/barry.fight
Email - Stulottie@gmail.com
Text/Whatsapp - 07929 612359
-
- Posts: 1120
- Joined: 31 Dec 2011 13:48
- Real Name:
- Location: Harborne
-
- Posts: 1120
- Joined: 31 Dec 2011 13:48
- Real Name:
- Location: Harborne
It's usually a bit busy on the first lap, but it calms down after that. It helps that the circuit is almost all left turns at roundabouts (some of them with a protected lane that takes you left without having to worry about traffic from the right).Yosser wrote:I'm intrigued Laurence, what on earth is the traffic like around Spaghetti Junction and Tyburn Rd at that time of night. I used to hate driving around there coming home from work let alone commuting and as for training....